Author Topic: 6ppc fire forming alternatives  (Read 20510 times)

Offline hendershot

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6ppc fire forming alternatives
« on: February 06, 2013, 07:47:40 PM »
Hey guys. What are your thoughts on fire forming using a wax plug and pistol powder? The theory is good but how does it work in practice?

Offline Pesky ab

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 09:35:57 AM »
lots of theories Dan, I found it easiest just to use an old barrel, unless your trying to save bullets?

Offline RayS

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 11:12:22 AM »
When I got my first benchrest gun last year I didn't like the idea of fireforming in a brand new barrel.  I tried some of the "new" version of Norma 6ppc brass.  I've reloaded it four or five times now and it still looks and shoots good.  I've been shooting all winter so far and have never had any problems with it.  :)
Ray

Offline BobR

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 03:13:14 PM »
I used ~10grains of Bullseye mixed with cornmeal and wax over the neck opening - which worked ok. I think it took a 3rd firing for the cases to be 100% expanded.

Now that I have a shot out barrel I'm planning to fire 22 cal bullets on the first firing (into a bank of dirt, up close...).

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 04:10:28 PM »
I expand, trim, chamfer the inside, deburr the flashholes, turn, fill to the bottom of the neck shoulder junction with what is left of lots of 133, seat a fireforming bullet (seated long) and fireform the new brass as foulers.  I use my bolt grease on the outside of the case as well before firing.  Just a very LIGHT coat.

I have not got into the fireforming before neck turning.

But as mentioned there are so MANY ways to accomplish this.
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline Pesky ab

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2013, 09:38:14 AM »
I have been doing it the same as Cal,only thing I would add is that now we run them through the sizing die first,also if you can exand and cut one at a time rather than expand a bunch and then turn, some times they can relax a bit  while your waiting to turn them  and you may get some small variances in neck thickness. hope that helps

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 06:04:20 PM »
I forget to mention as the Pesky one said above........... LOL......... Pesky one.................  Pesky one is a GOOD GUY........

After turning I degrease from turning then I run the case through my Harrell's die before loading.  With my reamer that is used to cut chambers the shoulder has to be bumped back or it is just to HARD to close the bolt.  As a matter of fact I should order a few more reamers to have on hand.  The fit between the chamber and my Harrells is perfect.  Hope Kiff can duplicate it??????

The other thing is I DO NOT hammer through getting the cases done in one sitting.  I may turn a few then pay attention to the Teleeeeeeeeeee while sucking on a glass.  Then do a few more............  Do not want to get that cutter warm.  Slow and steady wins the race.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 06:06:46 PM by cyanchycki »
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
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Offline lejarretnoir

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 10:53:47 PM »
I'm going to to try what Bobr is thinking of. I got plenty of .22 pills to fireform with.

Offline FBMAYER

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 11:38:58 AM »
Many years ago I fire formed 243 W to 243 AI.
10 gn. Bullseye plugged with beeswax.
When my wife wasn't home went to the fruit cellar with the cocrete cealing pointed the rifle up  loaded a case touched her off never lost a case.
Did not blow up the house ether.

Offline BobR

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2013, 02:44:58 PM »
Hey,

so, in getting some brass I bought from Lester Bruno ready for the upcoming season. It was already neck turned down to 8.5 thou thickness but not fired. I measure the shoulder at the base of the neck compared to brass I shot last year and the unfired 220 Russian brass has a shoulder that is ~10 thou longer!!! Does that make sense??

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 03:11:13 PM »
Yes, 

It makes sense.  You want the parrent cartridge (220 Russian) to produce light resistance when closing the bolt.  This allows the case to fully expand at the upper portion of the case upon the first fireing.  I realize that this sounds counter-intuative but that is how it works. You want a light "crush fit" of the cartridge case on the first fireing.  This method will provide a fully expanded case if the load produces sufficent pressure to fully expand the case.

LE Hanson

Offline Rick Graham

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 07:53:32 AM »
BobR, before you load up that new brass try it in your chamber to be sure you can close the bolt. Sometime you must run it through your sizing die to push the shoulder back a bit in order for it to be usable in your chamber. As LE said it is good to have a slight crush fit for fireforming, so don't push the shoulder back too far.

Offline BobR

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 12:47:55 PM »
thnx, will do

Offline BobR

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2013, 12:40:17 PM »
Used a little oil on the cases and "wow" did it make a difference in how well the shoulders were formed after 1 firing.

Offline hendershot

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2013, 07:05:39 PM »
I never remember to do that!  :-[

Offline singleshotom

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2013, 03:32:00 PM »
I'm no expert, but here is how I do fire-forming without using a gun.
I set up a sizing die in a press in my shop remove the de-priming, neck sizing rod from the die.
I prime all the cases I want to do with spent primers.
Cut a piece of tin small enough to put inside the shell holder to cover the hole (I have placed a small screw in to fill the hole) to hold the primer in the case.
Fill the cases to the base of the neck with water.
Put in press and push hand to the full sizing position.
Now the cartridge is in the new sizing die.
Then slide a brass punch, which I (turn/have turned) to be .001 smaller then the inside of the case mouth to the water.
Then one hit with a dead blow hammer and vi-la sized beautifully ... after a few youll know how hard to hit, its not overly hard.
Remove, pour out water, de-prime and dry.   
I call this hydraulic forming and once case are primed and filled with water you can do about 100 an hour and not a lot of water comes out when you hit the punch if the fit is somewhat tight.
Just how I do it...
Tom
 

Offline BobR

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2013, 07:33:38 AM »
That's pretty interesting/cool - what diameter are the necks (i.e. do they even change) since the water is in the case body at the start?

Offline RayS

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2013, 04:48:43 PM »
Bob:
I read an article on the accurateshooter site that explained the process using the Hornady die system.  I've never tried them but Hornady makes die sets for this type of case forming.  Apparently they will even custom make a set of dies if the customer sends in a couple of spent cases fired through the gun. I came across this system while searching for an alternate to fire forming cases in a new bench gun.
Ray
Disclaimer:  I have no financial interest in Hornady other than buying their products.

Offline hendershot

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2013, 05:50:33 PM »
I read the same article about the Hornady Hydroform dies. It was intriguing. I sent an email to Hornady for more details but haven't heard back yet. I'd like to try it.

Offline Pesky ab

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Re: 6ppc fire forming alternatives
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 10:36:47 AM »
If its for a new barrel Dan ,measure your neck diameter in the chamber, cut your brass to the neck thickness that you like ,Load the brass to be fire formed with your powder and bullets, usually you will only get around 28.2 of 133 in them, seat some bullets and shoot them,if the lot of  brass is good and you have a really good sizing die your brass problems will go away,it will also break in the barrel as well(if it needs it).its quick and easy.most are doing around 20 cases, there are some different theories on how long you run the brass, this again depends largley on your sizing die/chamber fit.weather is getting nice so we should all start getting out to practice

 

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