Author Topic: 2010 Nationals  (Read 20381 times)

Offline rpollock

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2010 Nationals
« on: December 22, 2009, 05:41:01 PM »
 Tony Gauthier said:

The 2010 BRSC nationals will be held at Rosebud range on the August long weekend.The match will start on saturday July 31 and finish up Sunday August 1. Hope to see you all there!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 11:24:16 AM by rpollock »

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 05:23:04 PM »
The range will be open to competitors Friday. They can use any bench that is open, but only one please. Paul or I will be there thursday night and if you want in earlier than that and are not a member let me know. Camping available but no hook ups.

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 09:41:04 PM »
I have attached the registration form below for anyone interested in attending

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 09:33:36 AM »
For those wishing to attend and want motel info I am putting some links below for motels in Cochrane. Maybe Doug or Max can chime in on this as I know they stay in Cochrane.
www.bestwesternalberta.com
www.travelodge.com
 www.super8.com
This site has all of them
http://www.cochranehotels.worldweb.com/
Looking forward to seeing everyone there and remember I need to know ahead of time on the BBQ as I will need to have enough steaks to go around!

Offline Blairguy

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2010, 11:49:55 AM »
Hi all,
i am contemplating attending the nationals while on vacation in the area. I am new to benchrest shooting and not sure if my setup is legal for the nationals. A picture of my front rest and forend is attached and would appreciate your comments so I can prepare properly for the event.

Offline rpollock

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2010, 12:02:31 PM »
Looks pretty good. From what I can tell, you may have a sled bolted to the forearm. You would need to remove that and just ride on sandbags. Otherwise good to go.

Also keep in mind that there is a weight limit of 10.5 lbs for light varmint (LV) and 13.5 lbs for the (HV). This is for the rifle and scope.

It would be great if you could make the Nationals. Tell us a bit about yourself, where do you live and a name, so we can keep track of you!

Rick


Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 06:19:24 PM »
I have attached the registration form below for anyone interested in attending

So far I have only recieved one registration form. We don't require or want payment with the form, but do need to know how many are attending and how many steaks you want for supper saturday. I will attach the form in word and you can save it fill it out and email it to me.

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 06:49:08 PM »
You will get mine in the next ten minutes.

Wasp.........
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline Blairguy

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 07:19:16 AM »
Looks pretty good. From what I can tell, you may have a sled bolted to the forearm. You would need to remove that and just ride on sandbags. Otherwise good to go.

Also keep in mind that there is a weight limit of 10.5 lbs for light varmint (LV) and 13.5 lbs for the (HV). This is for the rifle and scope.

It would be great if you could make the Nationals. Tell us a bit about yourself, where do you live and a name, so we can keep track of you!

Rick



My name is Michael Blair in Drummondville Quebec
Since retirement a few years ago I got back into accurate shooting. Had put all my reloading stuff away 25 years ago when our third child came along.
Back then I was one of the founders of the local pistol range and was heavy into handgun loading and shooting for recreation. No more pistol shooting now but have started competing in local benchrest matches in the 13.5 lb class with a Browning Abolt target rifle in 223.
Regarding my set-up would it be possible for you to give me the reference for the rule that does not allow the sled on the forearm? I have not been able to find anything specific in the IBS or NBRSA rules that disallow attachments to the stock if it meets the dimensional and functional limits.
Thanks for your response and hope to meet you sometime soon. Mike

Offline rpollock

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 07:52:31 AM »
In the NBRSA it is covered under the definitions section, item 16 "Guiding Means". Unfortunately this means anything bolted to the front forearms is not legal for the LV, HV classes or Sporter class. It is OK in Unlimited. I think IBS is the same, but I don't have a current rule book to look.

Offline Blairguy

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2010, 07:58:46 AM »
Thanks for the info. I had a close look at the paragraph on guiding means as well as the related paragraphs on rifles and rests. This prompts me to wonder whether the picture of my set-up provided above and the use of the word ‘sled’ is misleading. It might be helpful to add the following information. The piece added to the front of the stock is modeled after a legal benchrest stock. It has a flat bottom 3’’ wide. The rifle can be lifted vertically off the rest with no resistance. The adapter is screwed to the stock and provides 100% contact with the front sandbag. It is included in the weight of the rifle with respect to the 13.5 lb.  limit on HV rifle weight. It is as much a part of the stock as the adjustable comb or the butt plate which are also screwed to the stock.

In use, the rifle needs to be aimed for every shot the same way any other legal HV rifle has to be. Therefore the adapter does not constitute a guiding means or an unfair advantage over a one piece stock with the same contour. My rifle with the forend adapter appears to meet all the rules that have come to light so far. It is interesting to note that attachments to a rifle don’t seem to be outlawed as such since article 7 on rifles and rests in Tournament rules (p22) refers to the rifle with all attachments in place. 

However, the front sand bag does not appear to be legal. It provides significant contact with the sides of the forearm which seems to violate the rule of 100% contact with the bottom of the forend. Accordingly, I have already changed the front sand bag to the more popular style. 

Considering the above and that the rule book does not state anything specific to outright disallow a forend adapter, I am still looking for a justification before complying with your suggestion of removing it.

As I mentioned previously, I am relatively new to benchrest shooting and appreciate all the help I can get to do it properly.

Mike

Offline rpollock

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2010, 08:53:41 AM »
Mike, I understand what you are saying here. But, I do think you would lose this argument at a sanctioned match. The rule book is quite specific about any addition to the forearm meant to provide a guiding means or improve the contact between the stock and the sandbag. Don't let this discourage you. Shoot the rifle without the addition to the forearm. I would get a hunter BR style front bag and use that. It will better conform to the round stock.

Rick

Offline Blairguy

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2010, 10:35:53 AM »
Just had a talk with the Eastern Region Director, he is shooting right beside me, his answer was that as long as the attachment is part of the rifle and as long as it meets weight and other rules governing a HV rifle it is legal. Now if it has groves or rails of any kind, it is not legal, that constitutes a guiding means. I know that Hart's use to sell a metal thing that bolted to the front of a stock, at the sling hole and it was legal.

There is also a flat benchrest adapter sold by Sinclair that is designed to fit to the forearm and take full advantage of what the rules allow. Whidden also sells an adapter plate but it has rails on the bottom which effectively makes it concave and therefor illegal. Not all adapters are legal but then not all adapters are illegal. Bill, it is great to get a positive answer that relates to the rule book. Nevertheless the prospect of having a legal set-up refused at a sanctionned event is still a reality and represents is a bit more frustration than I am willing to endure.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 02:18:15 PM by Blairguy »

Offline DanO

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2010, 11:57:17 AM »
I will be bring my spare front rest (Bald Eagle base) with a non windage top and a small leather bag for hunting stocks, and
a second top with a 3" bag and windage screw. If anyone need to borrow it, please feel free to do so.
I quess it will be, first to inquire gets first dibbs.

DanO

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2010, 12:08:49 PM »
I have a second rest as well that I can bring if needed. 

Mine is a Sinclair base with a Shadetree Coaxial top with a #3 Cordura bag.  I have a top as well with a #1 Protektor bag for anyone with a hunting style stock.  Just the #3 is with the Coaxial top.

Calvin
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Offline Blairguy

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2010, 01:55:36 PM »
Mike, I understand what you are saying here. But, I do think you would lose this argument at a sanctioned match. The rule book is quite specific about any addition to the forearm meant to provide a guiding means or improve the contact between the stock and the sandbag. Don't let this discourage you. Shoot the rifle without the addition to the forearm. I would get a hunter BR style front bag and use that. It will better conform to the round stock.

Rick

Actually, I already have the rest top to fit the forearm without the adapter. Also, I very much appreciate the offers from DanO and Calvin. However being refused a legal option at the nationals for a reason that remains obscure is giving me indigestion. Anyway, I am not looking for an arguement and respect what you all have going for you whether I buy it or not. Mike 

Offline rpollock

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2010, 02:24:37 PM »
Who has refused you at the Nationals? National events are all comers matches. Anyone can enter. You asked for an opinion, I provided one. This is merely my interpretation of the rule book. You and others disagree, which is great, as it exposes some of the weaknesses in the way the rules are written. I am not the referee, I don't determine whose rifles are legal, I don't write the rules and I don't represent the BRSC or NBRSA etc.

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2010, 02:38:59 PM »
Mike you have not been refused to shoot.  You can come and shoot with that mod if you wish and in LV or HV or even both.  The thing is if your rifle is overweight in a class you cannot take hardware home if you happen to win something.  You are just shooting to shoot.  If your rifle meets weight requirement for a class you are eligible?????
to win.

The debate is whether or not your fore end mod is legal or illegal according to the rule book.  Why is it important?  Again you would not qualify to take any hardware home should you win.  You are just shooting for the sake of shooting without any chance of winning hardware.  If you win there is definitely bragging rights, to a point.

I will do my part to get an answer for you but you should still come and shoot.

Calvin

 
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Offline Blairguy

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2010, 07:02:56 PM »
My objective in participating at the Nationals would be to do my best shooting in harmony with others and see where I place. I don’t expect to win any trophies but I do want my score to count even if it is in last place. It would be unacceptable for me to use illegal equipment or to benefit from any form of charity in applying the rules even if I am not a top competitor. I want to own the result of my shooting at the Nationals although there likely won’t be much to boast about. If the term “bragging rights” applies then by all means call it that. If I win hardware I want to be able to take it home.

As far as shooting just to shoot, my home range is 40 minutes from my house and is open 7 days a week. I can shoot all I want anytime around here. After driving a few thousand kilometers, to shoot just for the sake of shooting lacks appeal even if the trip is combined with other types of activities. Your comments certainly make me feel welcome as a shooter but not as a competitor. It is irritating enough to know that some of my fellow competitors already consider my forearm adapter illegal for me to stay away. I am looking for fun and harmony not an argument.

Hopefully this answers the questions you have asked. I remain completely baffled as to how the IBS or NBRSA rules can be interpreted as outlawing any kind of attachment to the forearm. An official ruling would be more than welcome at this point and would likely benefit us all.


Offline cyanchycki

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Re: 2010 Nationals
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2010, 07:24:13 PM »
Mike I have posted a picture of your mod on BR Central.  The 2 replies so far is the thoughts are it is LEGAL for LV/HV.

Bill Gammon talked with the Eastern Director of I would assume the NBRSA as he is shooting in Michigan this weekend.  His reply is it is legal.

My opinion is it is legal.  Really what would the difference be if you attached it, used a whole whack of BONDO, and a custom paint job?  We would have a hard time knowing what was under the paint.

The only other thing is that when in the rest and the ears snugged up the rifle still must be able to lift out without lifting the rest off of the table.

The responses may not appear that we are clear on the answer.  This is only my second full year shooting and I do not know all the rules.  I have never experienced anyone at a match with a forend mod so I have never been involved in a dealing with it.

In your response to you live close to a range so why would you drive a few thousand K to shoot just for bragging rights.  Well I will tell you, I am going to the NBRSA Nationals barring any UNFORSEEN circumstances.  It is as a learning experience.  I will shoot and what comes of it is.  We are not supposed to feel that we have no chance of winning but that is my thought.  I have no hope in hell but I know I will be shooting with those that have the same love of BR and accurate rifles.

I am not sure I can say anything to ease your mind.

Calvin  
« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 07:42:14 AM by cyanchycki »
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

 

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