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Messages - rpollock

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1141
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 11:07:29 PM »
The same percentage of rifles thirty years ago would not agg in the teens.

Again we will have to disagree!

Regards,

Rick

1142
BR Equipment + Components / Re: Looking for benchrest primers
« on: December 26, 2009, 10:29:06 PM »
Anyone have an idea where to look. Wholesale sports in lethbridge has not had any for over a year.
Neither did Calgary Wholesale last time i checked or bass pro.

Mike I have been buying them off and on at Wholesale in Calgary. Supply seems to be improving. Haven't seen 205M's, just 205's. It is still hit and miss though. If you still need some in the Spring let me know. I have enough here to let 1000-2000 205's go. Probably have 3000-4000 WSM if you want to try those. PM me if any of this interests you.

1143
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 03:04:52 PM »
Rick, there is little doubt that XP was modified to some extent but that doesn't change the fact that it was 1980-something rifle building technology. That people today choose to use one of the precise and commonly available (commonly available to those willing to wait, in some cases!) custom or semi-custom, precision actions instead of a modified Remington doesn't change the original premise; there is a lack of technological change. I'm sure Lester no longer uses, or even owns, that rifle but he probably doesn't wear the same shoes either. My only point was that real good rifles of thirty years ago may very well have been capable of competitive accuracy even by today's standards. This especially when used by today's best shooters.
In a backhanded way, I'm trying to point out that potential new shooters needn't fear the equipment they see on the line. None of it is in the least "magic". They are only rifle assemble using common machine shop techniques just as they have been for more than a quarter century. The new shooter doesn't need to cough up 1800 dollars for an action. He does need to have an action which is straight and concentric. He does need to have a good barrel, properly installed. The barreled action does have to be properly fitted and affixed to a stock designed to work well from the bench. He does need decent optics solidly attached to the rifle. All of these things can be accomplished just the same way they have been in the past. Now, the cold hard fact is this; a Remington rifle costs as much as many good precision actions so is hardly worth acquiring to use as the basis of a BR rifle. If, however, the Remington is the "bird in the hand" it might be worth considering. Regards,   Bill.

I understand your point Bill, I am just not sure I agree with it. A single teen agg shot 30 yrs ago with a modified Rem does not build the case that the rifles built back then are competitive today. I think we would all still be shooting them if that was the case. I am probably one of the most conservative equipment whores out there, and even I feel compelled  to get a right eject rifle, just to see if I can learn to shoot faster and get that extra shot in while the condition is holding. The top 20 positions at the nationals this year were in the teens. You could argue a good portion of the field in 2009 had rifles that could agg in the teens. I don't think you could make that same statement 30 years ago. i do agree we are still shooting the same basic layout; action, barrel, scope, stock, etc, however in terms of refinement I don't think they are essentially the same. Even with a Rem in hand, I don't think it is worth considering, other than to get your feet wet or dabble. That is likely where we differ.

1145
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: Clubs From The Past
« on: December 26, 2009, 02:13:04 PM »
Here are some vintage BRSC Match Reports (not dial up friendly!):

Oct 1980 BRSC News
Feb 1981 BRSC News
Sept 1983 BRSC News

1146
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 02:08:55 PM »
In the mid-eighties, Lester Bruno fired a .17 something agg at the super shoot. His rifle was an XP100 action, unsleeved, glued into a glass stock. Hard to believe that rifle would not be competitive today!   Bill


I don't disagree with your major points Bill, but we should note that Lester isn't shooting that XP anymore (at least as far as I know). The XP action really isn't doing the shooter any favours today. At least not without spending so much time and money on it, that it essentially becomes a custom action in terms of cost and performance. For all we know in this discussion, that XP may have been an XP in name only. Maybe someone on here knows more about that rifle?

Rick

1147
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: Clubs From The Past
« on: December 26, 2009, 01:53:41 PM »
Here is some more information that Bill Lepper had written for the www.benchrest.ca webpage:

Bill Leeper Recollections

1148
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 09:43:05 AM »
Bill,

One of the overriding issues is the rule book. Anything that meets a definition of truly innovative probably falls outside our rulebook. Plus we are confined by the notion that there are only so many ways to hold a cartridge in a chamber and so many ways to drill and rifle a bar of steel. BR is no longer the refuge of the experimenter, it is dominated by people who don't really feel the urge to experiment all that much. They are too busy wearing barrels out at the top levels. The experimenters still exist, but you don't hear that much about them. I think dimishing returns are at work here. I agree the macro evolution appears stagnant, but the there is still experimentation at the micro evolution level.

As someone who was on a hiatus for about 5 yrs, I see a lot of changes. The equipment has changed or refined. Pretty much the trend is to ejector guns and shooting quick. Actions have been optimized for high pressure cartridges and speed. Barrels are better than ever. Continued refinement in the PPC never seems to stop. We have gone from .262 necks to no-turn necks, and now light turn necks. Almost nobody had coax rests 5rs ago, now it seems like everyone has them. The scope problem continues to be attacked, hopefully without spending $2500. The powder situation has people blending powders, sifting powders, now it looks like we will all be weighing charges at the range or pre-weighing and bringing the charges in vials. Winds flags are becoming quite sophisticated. I am not sure sure a BR rifle from 30 yrs ago, although appearing quite similar to today's rifle, would be all that competitive.

As you point out, the proof is in the pudding. The aggs are something to behold these days, even as compared to 5 yrs ago. In particular at the National level. It is daunting to say the least. Top 20 positions are teen aggs? Wow! Numerous records fell this year in the US, and Gary O'Cock was within 2 bullets of shooting a zero agg this year. Shooting a zero in competion was used to be very special (it still is to me) but to the top ranks it is somewhat routine.

The question as I see it, is where does the evolution go from here? Further refinments on the existing equipment, or will the rule books allow for true innovation? I am pretty sure we are locked in to the situation as it currently exists. This is probably fine with most competitors, since nobody wants to start over with all new equipments that takes most people a few years to acquire. Plus as I have mentioned before, the playing field as it exists today is incredibly level. This leveling of the playing field has improved over the years as the selection and availability of quality components has exploded over the last 10 years. Other than the border issues, there is more to choose from than ever before.

Good topic!

Rick

1149
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Participation
« on: December 25, 2009, 10:43:17 AM »
Rick,
This website will undoubtedly go a long way toward increasing participation. The disemmination of information related to benchrest is beneficial and so is the give and take on various forums.
One problem which is everpresent and even increasing is the expense related to competition. This applies to everything from equipment to components to the cost of travel.  Another problem is what one might call the "intimidation factor". People are convinced they will have to (a) spend major bucks on a rifle and optics and (b) always shoot little tiny groups. Neither situation is always true. It is possible to have fancy equipment and shoot big groups and it is possible to have slightly pedestrian equipment and shoot respectably well.
Another problem I have noticed at some of the matches I have attended is the seeming inability of some shooters to just shoot their match. Their actions and behaviour don't just lean towards poor sportsmanship but are perfect examples of it. In addition, the concept of gentlemanly behaviour has apparently been cast aside over the last couple of decades. I know this is largely reflective of society as a whole but a bit of effort at good manners would help to attract and keep shooters. In years long past, there were always some shooters whose language could be described as "colourful". In those days these people were mostly the exception and, perhaps, tolerated because of it. Nowadays, the use of vulgarity is overwhelming ( and I don't say I've never been guilty) and I know it is offensive to some who would attend the matches. It shows a lack of respect for others and it's reduction would help to attract new shooters. Really!
As I said, this website will do a lot and Rick, you are to be commended for your work in setting this up.   Regards,   Bill.



Great points Bill. I still think BR is one of the best kept secrets in the shooting world. I hope the website and this forum will go a long ways to improving that situation. We have to embrace fact and make it work for us, that in almost any endeavor people will turn to the internet first.

The equipment hurdle in BR is tough. What I tell people is that they don't have to buy everything the first day. A re-barreled Rem and a varmint scope can get people going. Most of the equipment people see on the line, the shooters have taken years to accumulate. The idea that BR is an equipment race is still out there. The reality that BR is a wind reading contest at the end of the day, escapes the casual observer. The equipment allows the shooter to get on the playing field, the rest is up to him/her.

I agree with you, I don't think it is too much to ask for people to keep the language down to a dull roar. Especially on the line and loading areas, as it can be distracting for your fellow competitors. I am guilty of it and will make an effort to keep it down.

The other idea that is out there is that people want to be competitive the first day, doesn't work in BR or any other competitive sport for that matter. I am not sure how to deal with this, since I still finish last after 15 years of this!

1150
About This Forum / Re: Congrats Rick!
« on: December 24, 2009, 04:47:52 PM »
Nice to hear from you Rick. Best of the Season!

1151
2-Gun

Complete Results can be founds at: http://www.benchrest.ca/match_results.html

1153
Centerfire Discussions / Winter Projects?
« on: December 24, 2009, 12:28:21 PM »
I'll start this off. I have what I call my old school project. It is the Swindlehurst, but with the 22Waldog chambering. I had a reamer made that will give it a light turn neck. It will go in a Robertson stock.

The other project is a Bat SV, it is a RB,LP, RE. My first right port ejector gun. It will have a light turn 6PPC chamber and also in a Robertson stock.

Lets hear what everyone else is up to.

1154
Off Topic / Best Memory of 2009?
« on: December 24, 2009, 10:31:15 AM »
For me it was seeing old friends and new faces at the Nationals in Regina, and seeing Joe M, and Lowell B, come to Rosebud for a shoot. Lots of great memories from these two shoots. Looking forward to more in 2010!

1156
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: Clubs From The Past
« on: December 24, 2009, 09:45:49 AM »
Needless to say I have been hooked ever since.


The first hit is free......

1157
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Participation
« on: December 24, 2009, 09:37:02 AM »
I have it on DVD. I posted some links to some of it that I have on photobucket. I can lend you the dvd if you like.

Hang onto to it Tony. When I get to that project I will see if we can easily pull the files from the DVD. You should look into uploading your files to Youtube, I haven't tried it, but apparently it is quite easy. Label them Rosebud Benchrest so anybody searching Rosebud or Benchrest on Youtube will find them.

1158
Photo And Video Gallery / Re: Shooters
« on: December 23, 2009, 06:51:52 PM »
I have a great group shot of the 2009 Nationals from Regina and would post if there are no objections.

Calvin

Go for it!

1159
About This Forum / How To Upload A Picture (Avatar) By Your Login ID
« on: December 22, 2009, 10:25:33 PM »
Go to the Profile section on the tab near the top left hand side of the page. Go to Modify Profile, then Forum Profile Information,  and you can upload a picture off the web or a picture off your own computer. Keep it small since the space will only allow abut 80x100 pixels wide. Thumbnail size.

1160
About This Forum / Re: Nice job Rick
« on: December 22, 2009, 09:06:07 PM »
Thanks John. It became apparent the old software wasn't going to cut it. A few hours later and even this luddite can get something going!

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