Benchrest in Canada
BR Discussions => Centerfire Discussions => Topic started by: gburwash on January 06, 2015, 10:22:44 AM
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Greetings I am getting my feet wet in the shooting events game and looking for some input from you seasoned vets. I have recently accurired a HVA. 222 VT rifle. Not sure how familier you folks are with them. They are built for target shooting!
My qestions are:
1) what class would be best suited for this rifle?
2) the rifle has no scope so Iam looking for your advise here. Iam wide open to your suggestions.
Thanks in advance for your thought, and input
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I have recently moved in to Crooked Creek Alberta from Calgary. I belong to the Valleyview gun range.
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This would make a very good factory class rifle. Get the highest quality 36 or higher power scope that you can afford.
Check with Rick or the other guys in Alberta as to where they might have shoots for factory class rifles. There usually are not to many competitors as most move into full benchrest guns within a years time.
Welcome to the site.
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Thanks gang
Can someone give me the paramaters of shooting in factory class? Or show me where I can find it? Secondly, Iam reading that as far as scopes go 36 power seems to be the flavor. Should a guy be considering, fixed or variable? There is an awful lot of guys shooting Weaver T36 and Sightron SII 36x
Wich would be better for factory class?
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There is factory class and hunter class (the latter being limited to 6 power scopes). If you get a variable 'varmint' scope that starts at 6 power, you will be able to 'see' for yourself what that is like, and go to higher power at will to appreciate that as well.
I personnally do not see a 36X fine ch scope on that rifle of yours for starters.
If you get the bug for benchrest competition, your first rifle and scope will not be your last.
There is no arguement that 36x scopes are popular but check out the guns that they are used on. Its a very specialized package.
As already mentionned do get the best quality scope that you can afford.
Someone once said 'If you find a good rifle, you can date it; but if you find a good scope, marry it!'
Welcome aboard. Hope you enjoy your shooting. You will find that target shooters are a great bunch, eager to help and support each other at all levels.
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Fantastic,
I am fond of leupold scopes, I own about 5 and only ever had to send one back for repair, and had it back on the rifle in under two weeks.
I have found a used varix III 6.5x20 for $700.00 you guys figure this adequate for a factory class rifle? Or should a guy be looking for more?
Reason I ask is, the scope can be moved to a newly built 6BR should a guy go that route. I have never used scopes with as much magnification as these.
Thanks for all the great information in advance, some people look for validation on what their thoughts are. I on the other hand will make a decision based on what you gentlemen are saying.
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If you might eventually transfer the new scope to another rifle and you already own 6x capable scopes then it would be important to know more about what you already have and what your plans are. It would definitely be an advantage to have maximum magnification capability in the 36x to 50x range for a purebred custom bench gun. The reason I like a variable is to adjust to conditions when mirage is bad and a 36x is too much. But in some cases, the weight of the scope becomes critical to meeting the rules on weight. 50x is great for seeing 22 cal the bullet holes in the target at 200 yards.
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Welcome. As many would say, "down the slippery slope"........
Yes your rifle would be more suited for a factory class type of match/competition be it group or score. There is nothing in stopping you from shooting or trying out a group BR match. In regards to score matches I am not sure what is held in Alberta. There are some clubs that have local fun shoots that you could try. First that comes to mind is Lethbridge. I believe they have some. Group well when you hear from Rick there is Rosebud.
Optics for the type of shooting we usually talk about on this board, 36X, 40X, or 45X fixed scopes.
36X there is Sightron, Weaver, Leupold
40X Sightron, Leupold, March
45X Leupold, Weaver(somwhere in this range), March
45 and higher March
Buy what you can afford. You like Leupold? I like Leupold. Have them on my BR rifles, both my .223's, and one that was built for BRSC that I won.
I would stay away from the variables unless you really need it. Then I would go March. The price tag is more but if it is a NON issue, buy what you can AFFORD.
Good Luck and maybe see you in Calgary this year.
Calvin
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I am not aware of any "factory class" in any of the sanctioning bodies anywhere, since most of those programs fizzle out due to lack of interest. I stand to be corrected though, maybe someone is running sanctioned "factory class" shoots somewhere.
I am not aware of any hunter class shoots in Western Canada.
In Alberta there are informal club shoots shot under local rules at Medicine Hat and at Lethbridge, maybe someone from those clubs will respond. They may have a factory class of some sort.
Mission BC runs an informal varmint for score shoot that I believe has a class for unmodified factory rifles.
At Rosebud we run under BRSC rules, Our matches are group shoots usually in LV, HV, and Unlimited class. You are welcome to come to these matches.
We will also run a BR101 school on May 24, which you are welcome to come to.
Up where you are, your best bet is to start organizing a shoot at your local club, otherwise you will need to travel a lot just to get your feet wet.
Rick
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Great stuff guys,
It looks like i will be going to rosebud on May 24th. Looking forward to it big time! And based on what i am hearing for a. 222 platform The 36 fixed is the way to go. (according to you guys)
Iam thinking a sightron is in my immediate future unless one of you fellas say otherwise. Perhaps one of you guys has one sitting around you want to sell.. ? If so you know where to find me.
Thank for the direction!
Grant
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Welcome aboard Grant , Glad to see your coming to Rosebud , always great to see new competitors getting into the sport, you will be in good hands with Rick, he pushed me down the slippery slope of real Benchrest shooting ,not just shooting from a bench a few years ago and Its been a lot of fun ever since , lots of great mostly untapped info to be found on this forum you just need to ask the questions, unlike some of the mainstream forums most on here actually do compete so you will get current info from real competitors,Since your just getting started maybe some info would be good, what kind of br are you interested in ? What's your budjet ? And what are some of your short term and long term goals? That will go a long ways in helping the people on this forum to help you on what ever path you take, it will save you time and money in the end. As rick said all the sanctioned stuff out west is group shooting , which is the hardest type of precision shooting there is. Also the most rewarding when you do it right.
As for scopes I'm with the other guys here who recommended the leupold and March scopes in 40 and up power. If budjet is a concern I think the 36 weaver and such can be found for about half the price
Good luck have fun and make sure to ask lots of questions ,good reading would be Tony Boyer's book and Mike Ratigans book , they have tons of good info.
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Bill, you must be easier on the new guys........ Can't chase them away before they have even started. :o :o
I started out with Weavers 36X's. Then I bought a Sightron 36X(which I still own). I got a great deal on a Leupold 45X frozen by Bukys with mount for 1000.00 Canadian. Wish I could have had more to buy at that price.
The only reason I walked away from my Weavers and sold them was I got to really liking the extra power. Otherwise I would still have them.
I have always been a Leupold fan and will continue to be. Even if it may mean sending it in every year to be checked out. In reality if it is sent in how do I know for sure if it is checked over?????? Could be an easy way to grab money by Leupold????? But what do I know?????
The March, well maybe they are the cream of the crop. But for that kind of money with a limited warranty I am not about to sell the farm. There are those that can and those of use who cannot and those of us that will dream........
I have relegated to being the DREAMER..........
What ever you choose Grant, it will work to get you going. I may not hold any records, may have not shot any teen aggs, or have nearly the rounds down range than most of the regulars who frequent the board, buy what you can afford. Then shoot all you can over wind flags to figure out what it does to your bullets on paper. There is a lot of opinions out there but there is nothing like chucking lead over flags learning how to shoot the wind.......
JMO
Calvin
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Thanks Bill
I rather enjoyed your response, i have a real love for leuplod scopes as well. All my hunting rifles wear them. I am glad eveyone is eager to help me out.
I cant lose sight that my rifle is a factory offering. I just cant run with the big dogs shooting march scopes on 6 BR rigs. To answer another gentlmans question, I have absolutly no prior experience! So i have no idea as to what matches i will be available to shoot in.
So what iam about to do is get a powerful variable scope, use it on the 222, and see howmuch fun I have. I can always move it to a custom 6br rig afterward if Iam enjoying my self. ( No Slippery Slope Yet) !!!!
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Bill,
Is your article on how to set up a 223 for score shooting still available? I'd like to read it.
Thanks. Mike
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Grant,
Along the lines of 'listening to PROVEN experts', the BR101 school on May 24 mentionned in one of Rick's post would be an excellent way to see what Benchrest is all about.
I drove for 7 hours to get to a BR 101 course in Maine that was put on by Pete Wass, Randy Jarvais and some other Mainiacs. It was worth it and then some! It didn't make me an expert but they let me shoot their rifles.........AWESOME! My point is that the May 24th clinic looks like a rare opportunity for you.
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Bill, I too would like to read your magazine article.
Thanks
Dwayne
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Bill you are not being harsh you are just being you.............. ALL bite and no bark......LOL ;D ;D ;D
Not fair Dwayne......... :P :P :P
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Bill
Hell I didnt take to heart anything. No worries I rather enjoyed it! Great information has been shared and Iam greatful! Iam thinking a powerful variable scope will make the most sence in my case, if benchrest really floats my boat, then I will commit to building something serious, and move the variabe scope over to the new platform.
I dont have an issue with putting on a few km to try something new. I have enrolled in the BR101 course at rosebud. Should be fun and a real eye opener.
Thanks to all you guys for taking the time to send me in the right direction.
Grant
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And another thing, (I am on a rant now), just remember you are getting into the most serious side of precision, and there is so much help out there, that it is mind bogling. But do not listen to the so called experts who say, I can shoot .5 all day, WOW. That just bought you last place at the Nationals. I think 2 of the .1350 aggs, was shot by Gene Bucky's, who unfortunately sat next to me on the left side, Bart Sauer on the right and guess who sat beside him? Mark Buettgen, OH WELL. Are you going to equal that? not a chance in hell, considering the rifle and Group shooting, but you are not into that part and you won't be yet. Keep the direction you are going and you will have fun, (and that is the whole idea), and maybe you will move up the custom stuff, which is also a lot of fun. Another thing, you have subscribed to one of the most leading sources of information there is in the extreme accuracy game, use it, and read it, and listen to what the "PROVEN" experts tell you.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/12/you-go-girl-ten-year-old-angelina-bests-benchrest-big-boys/
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Please explain the above , not sure what your trying to convey
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Please explain the above , not sure what your trying to convey
I am not into telling people what to think. The link just provides us with something to think about.
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It's a great story and I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to get out of it , can you spell it out for me please ? Thanks
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Pesky,
Didn't mean do cause any trouble for anyone. There are so many ways to look at things but one of the frustrations I had as a beginner was to see that many proven experts don't always agree. Then it was a question of just who are the proven experts anyway. If you shoot a world record does that make you a proven expert? Is that 12 year old girl the newest expert in our ranks? Are all proven experts good mentors?
The people that helped me the most were the ones that understood where I was at in the process but they are not what I would call the proven experts. I was not interested in having someone, even if it was Tony Boyer himself, dictate to me. I wanted the fun of trying things on my own even they had already been done by others many times throughout history.
I have made it a point to encourage my children to discover shooting. When my oldest daughter who had never shot a rifle before outshot me I was all smiles. But when I saw that it didn't phase her I asked her what the problem was. She said it was too easy because I had figured it all out for her.
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its no trouble , I was just trying to figure out what you were getting at, let me try to shed some perspective on the article you pointed to, the little girl did a great job of shooting a very good top of the line rail. (the same rail just shot a record 5 shot agg with Lou driving it) that was obviously well tuned for the day by the owner of that rail. Does that mean she is an expert ,nope, it means she listened to who ever was coaching her,(smart girl) He does pretty well in sbr out west. It is good to see younger people getting into the sport and we need to promote and support them , that is what I got out of the article.
I'm not sure what a proven expert is, I look for help from winners,(they are easy to find their on the top of the list at all the big shoots) those are the guys/girls I want to learn from, in contrast I am not likely to take advice from people who are at the bottom of the list or don't compete at all, If you have met TB you would know that the first thing he tells you is that there are many ways to do this sport, his is just one of them, When I am fortunate enough that Tony" talks" to me (my experience is that Tony will make a suggestion ,not dictate) , he has my full and undivided attention. Just anyone at the top of the list would.
no matter where you are in the process advice form the top guys is always helpful and will keep you from wasting time going down the wrong path, which is easy to do.
My experience has been very positive in this sport, I have enjoyed meeting the other shooters from across Canada and the U.S, all of whom have been very helpful.
MY suggestion for Grant would be, get out and shoot and have fun with what you have , ask lots of questions and read the books I already mentioned, that will be the cheapest education you can buy , come to the clinic in May ,shoot some full on bench guns and see if this is for you , Then proceed from there, there are lots of good br shooters in Canada and they will get you going on the right path should you decide you like it and want to go to the next level.
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Pesky,
Amen to that. If I had a chance to chat with TB I surely would.
But then if I had a chance to chat with Calvin about his journey into BR and the learning curve he experienced then I surely would do that too. And there are many others. My dream job is water boy for our BR team at the worlds.
Respectfully, Mike
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Iam very glad i asked the questions, i want to do the course before i start pissing money out the window. From what some are saying, the reloading dies i need are even different. Iam hearing the standard rcbs or redding ones are not the ticket for extreame accuracy.
General thoughts?
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Greg, my thoughts on dies.
You are going to be shooting a factory made rifle in .222. In my opinion the best possible die combination is to get a Redding Type S Full Length Neck sizing die. This die allows you to control neck tension with bushings and allows you to set shoulder bump by how much you screw the die in or out of the press. Just the sizing die. Forget about a seater. Redding part number 77109
For seating get a arbor press and a Wilson inline seater. You can go either with SS or the standard. I recommend SS. Is a micrometer adjustable top required? Not really. Get a few sets of skips shims for the seater die and you can adjust that way if you want to try different Ogive lengths.
Here is a link to a nice little Bald Eagle Arbor press...... http://www.busybeetools.com/categories/Metalworking/Arbor-Press/?sort=bestselling
Another nice reloading do dad is the PMA Micro die adjuster. Very nice piece of equipment for getting your shoulder bump set just right and fine tweaking......http://www.pmatool.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_48&products_id=377
Hope this helps.
Until you get to the point of maybe getting your own reamer to use every time, then you can think about a custom made die to match your chamber.
Calvin