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Messages - Bill Leeper

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1
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Mirage Shield?
« on: April 13, 2022, 09:31:39 AM »
I made an improved model using aluminum flashing and duct tape. I labeled the "Red Green signature model" and expected to be swamped with orders. Didn't happen though.  Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Mirage Shield?
« on: March 11, 2022, 08:40:18 AM »
I reckon a piece of target and some masking tape won't cut it anymore?   Bill

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Photo And Video Gallery / Re: Rosebud Firing Line Expansion
« on: September 27, 2015, 12:02:26 PM »
Wow! That is really impressive. Got to be Canada's best BR venue. Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: neck turning
« on: February 11, 2014, 01:26:32 PM »
I use a powered turner which takes all the strain out of it. At roughly nine hundred pounds, it's not really portable but it is precise. Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Canadian Barrel Makers.....
« on: January 24, 2014, 09:04:04 PM »
These guys test batches of barrels of the same make (whatever their favourite maker may be at the time). The reason they test batches of barrels (this assumes their pockets are deep enough to allow such testing and re-inforces the idea that the winners buy their way in; a contention with which I disagree) is that nobody is able to identify exactly what makes a good barrel vs a great barrel. If a barrel is perfect in all identifiable respects, it may or may not be a great barrel. If a barrel is obviously flawed, it may or may not be a turkey. It may be assumed, however, that a barrel which is straight, consistent in dimension, and smoothly finished, has greater potential to be exceptional than the flawed barrel.
Now, I have to say, I disagree with the practice of not lapping a barrel and I believe lapping may well be the most important step in producing a great barrel. Until this final finishing touch, the barrel is only potentially great. Some barrels may be good enough before lapping but they are likely to be better afterward. Also, a mediocre barrel can be improved to where it may achieve greatness. Nonetheless, I am willing to accept an unlapped barrel if I think it is basically sound because I can always lap it myself. If it doesn't work out, I have only to look in the mirror to lay blame.
I am also convinced that while most rifling configurations are just a demonstration that most anything will work well, there are configurations which are better than others for good, practical reasons.
I don't believe there is a great deal of difference between cut and buttoned barrels. Many years ago, I was quite convinced that buttoned barrels were somewhat more consistent but the ascendency of Krieger barrels over the last fifteen years or so puts the lie to this. Their practice of honing prior to rifling and lapping subsequently is a large part of their success and the guys doing the lapping should be well paid.
At one time, Ed Shilen figured that barrel straightness was immaterial as long as the barrel was not so crooked that fitting and chambering was difficult. The thing is, it doesn't take much of a curve to create a challenge when trying for a BR quality chamber and Shilen has, in recent years acknowledged this and begun straightening their barrels during manufacture (I assume this is done after drilling but prior to reaming as this makes the most sense from a machining standpoint).
Ultimately, one has to feel he is getting what he paid for and when barrels are getting into that 400 dollar range (thanks to market interference by the US State Dept.  Free enterprise, my ass!)one would hope that the necessity for trying out a batch of barrels would be a memory.
I'm hoping this is the summer our campground will take care of itself a little better and allow me to shoot a bit. We'll see what happens. I just don't have the time I need to have!   Regards,   Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Canadian Barrel Makers.....
« on: January 23, 2014, 03:59:46 PM »
I've shot a bit over the years and have fitted and fired quite a few barrels. The first Ron Smith barrel I used was for a Hunter class rifle which I barreled in 1978. This was a chromoly barrel and I contoured and fitted it to a Remington 700 action. The rifle shot well and I believe it did hold the Canadian 100 yd hunter record briefly. The barrel was straight, consistent, and quite smooth for an unlapped, cut rifled barrel.
I have used only one 6mm Smith barrel on a light varmint rifle and it was competitive although there is some question as to whether or not I am. I have used the barrels on F class rifles with good results but I do lap them.
Interestingly enough, the straightest, and most consistent barrel I have ever had in my lathe was a Smith. I scoped this one and there was not a single visible tool mark in the barrel. In fact, I called Ron and asked if he had decided to start lapping his barrels. He denied this. I told him to make all the rest of my barrels just like that one.
John Howard used Ron's barrels on his fullbore rifles and enjoyed great success with them.
FWIW, My best barrels have been Harts. I have also had good results from Shilen, McClennan, McMillan and Sherer. The most disappointing barrels I have used were Lilgas. I presently have BR rifles with barrels from Hart, Shilen, and Gaillard and a hunter from Ron. I have F class barrels from Douglas, Smith, Hart, Benchmark, McGowan and Shilen.
Benchrest shooters have never been too adventurous when it came to making a barrel choice and I don't blame them. Barrels are not cheap and it costs time and money to get them installed and to see what they can do. Short range BR is an exacting sport and there isn't a lot of room for experimentation if one wants to be near the front of the pack.  Regards,   Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Charlie Womack info??????
« on: January 23, 2014, 03:26:06 PM »
Charlie Womack was one of the stalwarts of the Clearwater, B.C. BR club and of the BRSC. There were a number of characters in the Clearwater club and Charlie was most assuredly one of them. I think Charlie might have had some difficulty at today's matches as he was a man who kind of liked to talk and during the match was as good as any other time. There were a few of the early shooters whose company I truly enjoyed and Charlie was most definitely one of them.
Charlie perfectly illustrated that while you can take the man out of Texas, you can't take Texas out of the man. He had lived in BC since before I was born but still sounded like Texas. I think he was still coming to grips with the fact that BC was bigger.
Some of the great entertainment was the running commentary between Charlie, Alex Bulman, and Harlan Govett during the match.
That Hart action had a PPC bolt fitted to it by Larry Bagget in 1977, I believe. I put a McMillan barrel on it in the winter of 79.
I think it was in 1978 that Charlie suffered a stroke which got him to thinking of his own mortality and he donated the Womack Memorial trophies out of the mistaken feeling that he might be forgotten. Not likely.  Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Powder For 6ppc
« on: January 07, 2013, 02:22:22 PM »
When I built my first PPC, the one thing I really liked about it and subsequent ppc's was it's ability to shoot well with a wide variety of powders. In fact, it was almost too tolerant and it was hard to make a choice. I used and won matches with 322, 4895 (both IMR and Hogdons), 3031, 748, and Re7. Today, I would try Benchmark and 2015 as well. Don't get sucked into a rut. The same thing goes for primers. It sometimes pays not to play follow the leader.    Regards,   Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: 6PPC - .262 or .269 (or to turn, or not)
« on: June 19, 2012, 09:15:09 PM »
In the early days of the 6PPC, the only brass available was Sako .220 brass. The original chamber neck diameter, as designed by Pindell and Palmisano, was .264" but the Sako brass would not clean up at a large enough diameter to allow the use of a fitted neck in a .264 chamber so most went to a .262 neck. I beklieve fred Sinclair, not wanting to leave anything to chance, went to .261.
My first reamer was a Hugh Henriksen reamer with a .264 neck. Of the brass I had, about half of them were thick enough to allow me to turn them to .0003" clearance and run them fitted. The other half, I had to turn down a little more to clean up and they required sizing. I shot both batches and could see no difference in performance so I turned them all so that they required sizing.
I later got a .262 reamer just because that seemed to be the popular size and most rifles I chambered were cut with that reamer. All of my own, I chambered at .264 because I had enjoyed pretty good success with that chamber. I always felt that the brass which was turned to give about .0015 clearance (diametric clearance) was less sensitive than those which were closely fitted.
Today, there are some brass choices but the Lapua seems to be the brass of choice and I see little reason to mess with anything else.   Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: US Citizens bringing firearms to Canada
« on: March 08, 2012, 10:51:14 AM »
Dennis,
It really is pretty simple for US citizens to bring their rifles up here. A lot more so than for a Canadian resident to take one down there. I have even heard of some who got a PAL and registered their rifle up here to make things even easier. I will do work for Americans only if they hand deliver the rifle or parts and pick it up in person as well. Life's too short to deal with that crap.   Regards,    Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Favourite BR Alibis
« on: March 30, 2010, 10:12:23 PM »
I have never used alibis since my ineptitude is it's own alibi. I have seen shooters who have made poor shots and who had legitimate alibis; sometimes without even knowing it.
I witnessed one such occurence whic I have recounted before but will repeat just in case somebody missed it.
It was probably in about 1979 or'80 and I was shooting at a match at Clearwater BC. I was set up next to Harland Govett. I always liked shooting next to Harlan since I found his patter entertaining. In addition, Harland had a tendency to mess up on occasion, adding t the entertainment.
On this particular day, I had fired my five shots fairly quickly; producing one of my trademark groups which make the moving backer superfluous. Having nothing else to do, I watched as Harland fired his second shot right through the first hole. He looked pleased as he chambered shot number three and sent it downrange. Again, it went right through the original hole. However, at virtually the same time as the shot hit the target, a ladybug landed nearly an inch out at roughly 2 o'clock. Both Harland and I were fooled and believed that to be his third shot. Disgusted, Harland did a creditable job of putting the last two shots between the two holes then got up from the bench. I was still looking at the target when the bug flew away! I still remember Harland's comment when he saw the target, " Hell, that's not as bad as I thought!"
Another classic was fired by John Elliot at the same range. This day was wet. The rain varied between a standard deluge and a " Get to the Ark, and hurry" downpour. I, for one have always wondered what effect raindrops had on a bullet; primarily to ascertain their alibi value. While I still have not been able to quantify the effect of raindrops, I can tell you that rain can, under the right circumstances, have an effect. In this instance, John had a reasonable group going with his 6mm International when, just as he was bearing down for his fifth shot, a stream of water came off the roof and right in front of John's muzzle (or, I should say, his rifle's muzzle. John's was well back.) At the shot there was a cloud of spray and that shot hit a good inch and a half out.
I don't remember who it was who fired a 222 mag through his 6x47. Under normal circumstances, the shot would have missed everything and  he might have thought he put one through another hole. Unfortunately for him, his 22 bullet went through the target, sideways, about 2 inches to the right.
Another shooter, I think it was Andy Gilfillan, had chosen faulty brass as his alibi for the day. On this day, Andy was shooting more than his share of flyers and with each flyer, he tossed the offending piece of brass over his shoulder. It wasn't long before he was running low on brass and had to reclaim some.
So, there are legitimate alibis and time tested alibis ( the "double" is an old favourite). Alibis are necessary and so much better than having to say, "I am just stupid!" Regards,    Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Quantum Mechanics & BR
« on: March 30, 2010, 09:30:23 PM »
Tony,
Since everthing the shooter sees and experiences is influenced by the thoughts of his competitors - keeping in mind that these fellow competitors will sometimes sink to surprising levels of subterfuge - the synaptic miscue could easily be no fault of the shooter. Instead, he might well be making a wrong choice based on skewed information. Indeed, this may the the only explanation for some of the groups I have fired. Never mind that even mechanical issues, if I read correctly, could have their roots in the negative vibes coming from the man on the next bench. The next time your rifle coughs up a flier for you, have a quick look around and see if you can catch another shooter with a smug look on his face. Odds are, this same shooter was the one glaring at your scope just prior to your shot.
I tell you, this little discussion has made me look at things in a whole new light. It might be that a tinfoil deflector will prove to be useful against those who would try to sabotage a shooters efforts via mental interference. At the same time, there may be a market for an amplifying device to aid in positive resonation. Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Quantum Mechanics & BR
« on: March 28, 2010, 10:14:38 PM »
Now, I don't know if it really has much to do with quantum mechanics but I noticed, while reading the excerpt from the research paper, pretty solid evidence that my brain had slipped off into a parallel universe. The feeling was not unlike the feeling I get when bullets appear to fly upwind as they so often do when I'm suffering through a match.
I must say, on those rare occasions when I have shot particularily well, it did almost seem like I could will the bullets into the hole. Sadly, this phenomenon also seems to be well beyond my control and strictly random in nature.
Perhaps the best potential use for such esoteric knowledge lies in the alibi arena. Rather than simply missing a condition, one can admit to misjudging the necessary synaptic frequency for a particular shot. The cummulative effect of this error could easily spoil the whole damn group. Indeed, the entire match could be adversely affected. The beauty of this is; It may not even be the shooter's fault! I like it.  Regards,   Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 28, 2009, 11:49:50 PM »
Jeff,
The flat bottomed buttstock was new in about 1992 (on benchrest rifles, that is. Or maybe not,  they were fairly common on rest rifles of the 1880's) It ain't new now. In addition, it's hardly a technological change. Benchrest rifle have had flat forends for as long as I've shot them. Most stock design changes have been stylistically mandated rather than an attempt to improve performance. The higher sides are in response to the rest top designs which had a tendency to grab the forend enough that the combo could have been considered illegal if anyone cared enough to complain. Nonetheless, I agree that stocks look different than the stocks of thirty years ago and I'm sure manufacturing technology has improved. The use of carbon fibre can be considered technological change; at least from the manufacturing standpoint if not from the standpoint of performance.
Action tolerances are better overall but, as I said, a Stolle action from 1980 looks and acts remarkably like a Stolle action from 2008. More custom action makers do produce actions which no longer need the attention of the gunsmith but this trend started with the Stolle and Hall actions of thirty years ago. It is indeed a nice trend. Ejectors and roller cams are fluff. Older actions didn't have ejectors because the shooters didn't want them. Now, enough shooters are convinced they are beneficial to their style of shooting that they are once again being offered (just like on 40x factory actions of 45 years ago).
Frozen scopes are in response to scope manufacturer's perceived inability to make a scope which will maintain zero. Non adjustable scopes are essentially a return to 1950's methodology though optics are, frankly, superior (optics, not mechanics). I think the frozen scopes are an indication that scope manufacturers have done a poor job of improving their products. The necessity of gluing a scope's adjustments can hardly be considered a technological advance.
Honestly, I don't think there is a lot of room for improvement and most changes will continue to be more style driven than performance driven. Mechanically, I think there are a couple of areas which might be improved. One is barrel attachment. An angled face on the receiver would provide a more stable seat and a corresponding seat at the breech end of the threads woud make it even better. A second improvement could be in the trigger. The Remington trigger system is not really all that great and the trigger manufacturers have done a super job of taking it as far as they can. Pivoting the sear at the rear instead of the front and making the contact vertical would be good moves. Anything which reduces lateral deflection and improves striker energy consistency might pay dividends.
The perfect stock and the perfect stock attachment has yet to appear but may exist. Again the answer might simply be in improved execution of old techniques.
I hope no one thinks I am trying to denigrate the efforts of shooters and builders. I'm just commenting on the lack of change over the last thirty years. A rifle from thirty years ago could be absolutely competitive at a match today. A rifle from 1960 would never have been competitive in 1980. In fact, the best rifles from 1970 would likely have come up way short ten years later.
Rick,
I think I put that wrong. I meant to say a smaller percentage of rifles would have been capable of agging in the teens. I'm sure we agree on that. Where we disagree is that I think they were technically capable of doing so but the shooter's expectations were a bit lower and lower expectations inevitably lead to poorer results. The point I am trying to make is that, in many respects, the equipment race is optional but shooter effort is not.
Now, Let's move on to components. Specifically, bullet design. Over the last 25 years or so, the trend has been toward bullets with longer ogives ans shorter bearing surfaces. In addition, the boattail fell out of favour entirely. Recently, there has been a bit of a resurrection of the boattail and, as well, some experimentation with shorter ogive bullets. Who likes what? Does anyone see a competitive monometal bullet in the future of the sport? Regards,   Bill.


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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 10:51:47 PM »
That wasn't the only teen agg fired at that match and was far from the first teen agg fired in competition. In addition, even by that time, most shooters were not using Remington actions. Keep in mind, actions from Stolle, Hall, and others had been around for some time and those actions were as well made then as they are now.
I don't in any way recommend a Remington over one of the numerous custom actions available, I am just pointing out that a new shooter can use one if it is economically feasible and not be totally out of it. Just as he can use Weaver scope rings instead of Kelby's or an old Hart trigger instead of a Jewel.
The same percentage of rifles thirty years ago would not agg in the teens. However, I suspect this was as much because the shooters had a tendency to "settle" rather than work at getting more out of the rifle. We see this amongst shooters still. The tendency to forget the flyers. The tendency to remember the best groups and believe they are likely to show up during the match. Top echelon shooters don't do this.
It is my contention that most, if not all, of the refinement is to be found in the shooters rather than in their rifles. Apart from increased shooter capabilities, the benchtop equipment has been hugely refined. The old Hart and Wichita rests such as used by yours truly are a true anachronism and I'm quite certain that the new front rests are of considerable benefit. I should point out, however, they are of no benefit if the rifle shoots poorly or the shooter ignores the wind flags. In other words, if you are shooting in the threes, a new front rest is unlikely to enable you to turn the corner. Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 02:48:43 PM »
Rick, there is little doubt that XP was modified to some extent but that doesn't change the fact that it was 1980-something rifle building technology. That people today choose to use one of the precise and commonly available (commonly available to those willing to wait, in some cases!) custom or semi-custom, precision actions instead of a modified Remington doesn't change the original premise; there is a lack of technological change. I'm sure Lester no longer uses, or even owns, that rifle but he probably doesn't wear the same shoes either. My only point was that real good rifles of thirty years ago may very well have been capable of competitive accuracy even by today's standards. This especially when used by today's best shooters.
In a backhanded way, I'm trying to point out that potential new shooters needn't fear the equipment they see on the line. None of it is in the least "magic". They are only rifle assemble using common machine shop techniques just as they have been for more than a quarter century. The new shooter doesn't need to cough up 1800 dollars for an action. He does need to have an action which is straight and concentric. He does need to have a good barrel, properly installed. The barreled action does have to be properly fitted and affixed to a stock designed to work well from the bench. He does need decent optics solidly attached to the rifle. All of these things can be accomplished just the same way they have been in the past. Now, the cold hard fact is this; a Remington rifle costs as much as many good precision actions so is hardly worth acquiring to use as the basis of a BR rifle. If, however, the Remington is the "bird in the hand" it might be worth considering. Regards,   Bill.

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 01:53:24 PM »
I do believe there has been much more experimentation and change in accessories (rests, bags, etc.) than in the rifles themselves. The rests, especially.
It is my contention that the rifles have not changed but have simply settled into a configuration which was shown to be effective more than a quarter century ago. In the mid-eighties, Lester Bruno fired a .17something agg at the super shoot. His rifle was an XP100 action, unsleeved, glued into a glass stock. Hard to believe that rifle would not be competitive today!
The top shooters are vastly improved. They are capable of seeing wind changes that I, most likely, never could. They have the patience and ability to develope loads which bring out the best in their rifles. I can't help but think bullet quality has improved somewhat though, I must confess, I'm not sure how. Bullet balance is still dependent upon jacket quality and while jacket concentricity may have improved substantially, it happened when I wasn't looking! (feel free to speak up here, Dan).
The rule book specifies stock configuration to a certain extent but it still leaves a lot of room for individuality if the shooter so desires. Barrel dimensions are limited but don't seem to make a huge difference anyway. For the right shooter, tuners are an interesting and effective innovation (again, not a really recent innovation since I recall reading an article describing a barrel tuner when I was in high school).
The rapid fire technique employed by so many shooters today, is a technique which has taken a quarter century to become as popular as it has. In 1978, a fellow from Portland, Oregon, fired a number of groups in under 30 seconds each. His rifle was the first dual port rifle I had seen. In 1980, Allen Bench showed up with an ejector rifle which also feature a gravity feed, open, magazine which fed into the left port. You can understand why I think rifle developement is minimal. By the way, the original dimensions for the PPC featured a 264 neck (light turn) which was later reduced to .262 because too many of the cases available at the time wouldn't cleanup if turned to .010 thickness.
Cyanchycki,
Actually, I doubt the equipment has improved to any noticable extent. A lathe is a lathe. It's ability to spin true is dependent upon bearing quality. You would have to ask Timken if they think they make better precision class bearing than they did 50 years ago. I suspect the precision bearings are no better but are more easily produced. Work and tool holding methods are the same as they have been for fifty years. The reamers used today are just like the one's I bought in 1978. I have and use reamers made from '78 on and, since they all come from the same area in Oregon where, I suspect, all the reamer makers are related by marriage, if not blood, these reamers are essentially the same product. Again, the reamer makers are able to more easily produce a precision product and more easily measure it. All gunsmiths, myself included, have varied our techniques in an attempt to more easily get the best out of the tooling thus making results more repeatable. The goal, however, remains the same; precise alignment and concentricity of the finished product. Regards,   Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Arrested development?
« on: December 25, 2009, 11:11:03 PM »
When I attend a BR match today, it is often surprising to me how little the sport and especially the rifle, has changed in the past thirty-odd years. This is not to say that the scores have not improved; especially at the top levels. The technology has changed very little however. The basic rifle has been refined to a certain extent but is still remarkably similar to the winning rifles of over thirty years ago.
What has changed is the availabilty of real quality rifle components. In 1977 you could get glass stocks from Chet Brown,  Lee Six, or Gale MacMillan. Today there are a half dozen others at least.
In 1977, barrels came from Hart or Shilen. The occasional maverick would shoot something else (Atkinson, Sherer, Pat MacMillan). Today, one can still win with a Hart or a Shilen but he can also use Krieger, Pac-Nor, Lilga, Rock, Bartlien, Gaillard, Lothar-Walther  and a bunch of others.
The plethora of actions, and quality actions at that, is another change. Not too often will you see anyone competing with a common 40X action today.
These changes though, are not changes in technology; they are just changes in the landscape. Many of the actions are just Remington clones made with a greater attention to precision alignment and dimensional uniformity. The barrels are made in essentially the same way as they always have been.
The changes in stocks have amounted to slight changes in conformation and the utilization of materials which were unavailable or, at least, uncommon. in the 1970's. Still, there has at least been a certain amount of experimentation in the field of stocks. The rest of the rifle, not so much.
Essentially, the actual design parameters of the rifle have changed little if any since the late seventies. A short, stiff barrel is chambered (for a 6mmPPC, of course) and threaded as precisely as possible and is mated to a single shot bolt action which is rigid, concentric, and true. The resultant unit is glued into a synthetic stock. The 2 ounce trigger, which works just like the two ounce triggers of 40 years ago, is installed and the high powered scope is affixed to the receiver. This was the formula in 1977 and it is the formula today. That techniques have been refined and are more universally employed is meaningless. The design parameters are the same.
The upshot of all this is that benchresters have become shockingly conservative. Look past the brightly painted exteriors and you will a rifle which is technologically moribund. The response, of course, is that there is little reason to experiment, things work pretty darn good as they are and this is the truth. Have we reached the pinnacle of rifle developement? I don't know but it almost seems like we have hit, if not a pinnacle, at least a plateau.
Please understand, I'm not saying this is good or bad; I'm just saying it is so. Regards,   Bill.

19
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: Clubs From The Past
« on: December 25, 2009, 09:18:01 AM »
There was an active range Near Sparwood, I think. Next time I'm talking to Bill Trommer, I'll ask him. The range near Creston has held hunter matches in the past but has been inactive in recent years.
It is always just a few core individuals who establish these ranges and keep them going. Sometimes, less than a few. In addition, many of the organizers are involved as much for the comradery as for the shooting. As members leave, a lot of the enthusiasm fades.
Al Mirdoch carried Namaka after Terry died; with substantial support from the Leffingwells. In Clearwater, Jack Neufeld and Lawrence Giesbrecht were the backbone of the club and the rest of us went along for the ride.
There can be little doubt that resurrection of BR at the Rosebud club has been largely due to the efforts of Tony Gauthier. Now, with the establishment of this forum by Rick Pollock, perhaps we'll see a bit of a resurgence. I hope so. Regards,   Bill

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Centerfire Discussions / Re: Winter Projects?
« on: December 24, 2009, 10:39:31 PM »
I plan to modify my 300M "F" class rifle so it will make the weight as a heavy varminter. I plan to actually shoot my LV rifle enough to, once again, be somewhat competitive. I'm building a new rest top for my antique Wichita pedestal. I will continue to eschew the use of a PPC! Regards,   Bill.

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