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Messages - rpollock

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1121
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Reloading 6ppc..Advice Needed
« on: January 02, 2010, 07:07:39 PM »
Yes it is a .262 chamber and my brass is at .260....my apologies for not making that clear..
Turn the brass to .085" and that will get you to .260 on the loaded round. Probably use a bushing around .258 on the sizer.

I thought I would use Vihtavuori N133 powder to start. Good place to start, use a 63-68 gr bullet.

If I go the Harrels route and the Wilson seater,how do I procede.
I take my new unfired rifle with new unfired brass.
Should I use an expander mandel on the new Lapua brass,before I load it.
You will need to expand prior neck turning, then it should hold a bullet for fireforming, without having to size it.

How do you fireform your brass? Use a bullet around that 63-68, doesn't really matter much, just don't stick a heavy bullet in there or it will be too high pressure. and as much N133 (assuming new unfired Lapua 220 Russian) as it will hold.

Do I trim before  fireform? For length maybe, it should be around 1.500", much longer than that and you should trim it back.

How do I necksize the cases  for fireforming if if I have to send the fired cases to Harrells first and wait for the die.
If I have to fire the cases several times before sending them off,don,t I have to size them each time I fire them.
If you go this route you should still have enough grip to just hold the bullet in place for 2-3 firings due to elasticity. Not recommended for matches, but to get a few shots of fireformed brass to send to Harrels it should work. You don't really want to resize it, as this will give a more accurate shape of the chamber for Harrels to measure up

God, loading .223 and 6mmbr was like being on Sesame Street.
Not really! You will be learning about tight necks and brass bumping, but the other principles are the same!

Rick

1122
Centerfire Discussions / Re: 22 PPC
« on: January 02, 2010, 06:43:04 PM »
Quote from: charles on January 02, 2010, 06:26:30 PM
rpollock a big tanks for the inside with the contact here in estrie. Very appreciate !
For, your question a fire formed case have a .244 too the neck.
The guy who want too sell me the rifle have also tell me that the trigger is a Canjar adjustable for 1oz too 4lbs. With the deal i have a custom set trigger from brownells and 500 bullets sierra of 52 grain.

With this rifle and some pratice i hope i will be competite in the bench match next summer.
I have see what some bench guys are able too do and this is incredible.

I have a question for you guys: your rifle is glue-in or screw in the stock ?

Thank you for your welcome guys




Glad to provide a contact. That is the whole idea for the forum.

I prefer a glue in action, but there are just as many who prefer the pillar bedding and screw in action. Looking forward to hearing how things go.

Rick

1123
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: 2007 Prairie Provicial cup winners
« on: January 02, 2010, 03:51:04 PM »
Quote from: cyanchycki on January 02, 2010, 03:48:40 PM
Rick that was 09 winners

What? Its not 2007 anymore?  ???

I don't think I have the 2007 winners. Maybe someone else does?

1124
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: 2007 Prairie Provicial cup winners
« on: January 02, 2010, 12:13:13 PM »
Mike Darlow, Dan Opel, Rob Seeman

1125
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Reloading 6ppc..Advice Needed
« on: January 02, 2010, 08:41:58 AM »
Quote from: DSIMON on January 02, 2010, 08:14:57 AM
Hello All,
My first post and a lot of questions.
I am currently putting together a 6ppc rifle for br shooting.
I'm new to 6ppc,so have some reloading questions.
I have an arbor press and a standard press to load on.
I've got the 6ppc cases necked down to .262.
The barrel I will be using is a Mclennan 13.5 twist.
I'm pretty well open on dies and bullets and any other tools I may need.
I was thinking trying the Berger 68gr.Match FB bullets to start with.
I've also used the Wilson Neck sizing and seating dies and was thinking of buying a pair of those.
Yes, I am a newbie and welcome all advice.
Thanks,
Derrick

Derrick,

You are on the right path. The 68 Bergers will be fine. One day when you want to experiment you can try custom bullets.

As far as the seater, the Wilson seater and an arbour press is pretty standard and very popular. For the sizer you can use the Wilson, but the threaded dies are more popular, such as the Redding. Don't get a neck sizer, you will need something that will squeeze the body as well. You also can use one of the custom dies. The one I like is the Harrels http://www.harrellsprec.com/ What you do, is send 3 pieces of brass that have been fired several times and they will choose one of their dies that will give the correct amount of squeeze and bump on the brass. Seems to me it is about $70USd but well worth it. It takes a few weeks.

Rick

1126
Off Topic / Vegas - Not just sand and slots anymore!
« on: December 30, 2009, 11:18:06 PM »
http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/2009/dec/29/family-funand-guns/

Goofy article by a goofy reporter.. However..... Clark County now apparently open.

Looks like a benchrest range to me, but not sure why the guys in the photos are holding shotguns?  Only 18 hr drive from Calgary. Rumour is BR to start there at some point, not sure when. Possibly the largest public shooting facility in the world.

1127
Centerfire Discussions / Re: 22 PPC
« on: December 30, 2009, 09:12:32 AM »
Quote from: cyanchycki on December 30, 2009, 09:07:09 AM
Hey R and R, thanks for a new idea for my new varmint rifle......

I was talked into a 20 PPC but now I am thinking 20 PPC Short or maybe a 20 Waldog.....  If there is boiler room why don't I just shorten the case to make sure we get good load density....

What powder is the norm for the 22PPC short or Waldog?

Calvin

Pretty standard BR related powders: H322, 4198, Benchmark.

I think a 20 on the PPC case would be fun. Just bear in mind the amount of case work to prep the cases. Push the shoulders back, trim, fireform. A true wildcat. If it is for a varmint rifle I suppose I would avoid a tight neck to save on case prep.

You could also do it on the BR case. I think that has been done more often than the PPC case.

1128
Centerfire Discussions / Re: 22 PPC
« on: December 30, 2009, 08:40:47 AM »
Quote from: RJohansen on December 30, 2009, 08:34:21 AM
Quote from: RJohansen on December 30, 2009, 07:40:57 AM
Great minds think alike???   Are you going with a no turn neck? I had originally had that in mind but have since changed my idea. I'm going to stick with the .242"
Read that .246 neck   not enough coffe this morning for the brain cells to have warmed up!!!

I am going with a light turn neck. I think it was .248. Been a while since I looked at the reamer spec. I had one years ago, and liked it, so thought I would try one again. They are fun to shoot. Quieter and less upset in the bags.

1129
Centerfire Discussions / Re: 22 PPC
« on: December 30, 2009, 06:59:31 AM »
Randy, I am making a Waldog this year. The Waldog of course was a 22PPC shorthened .125". Looking forward to shooting it.

1130
Centerfire Discussions / Re: 22 PPC
« on: December 29, 2009, 04:37:50 PM »
Charles,

Are you anywhere near Champ de tir de L'Estrie? They are holding informal centerfire and rimfire score matches. BR contact is Michel Ouellet ouelmic@vedeotron.ca
Club is located in Saint-Francois-Xavier ,near Sherbrooke Quebec. You may wish to get in contact with Michel, to get some local contacts in BR.

Back to your original question. The 22PPC is the original PPC which has since been modified into many different specifications. Most importantly you need to find out what the neck diameter of the current barrel is. It may be stamped on the barrel. Did the rifle come with any brass or loaded rounds, or loading dies? It most likely has a tight neck chamber and you will need to neck turn the brass to get it to fit.

Tell us a bit more about the rifle and what your plans are, and we can point you in the right direction.

Rick

1131
Centerfire Discussions / Re: 22 PPC
« on: December 29, 2009, 03:50:45 PM »
Charles, The answer to your question is that yes the 22PPC and a sleeved Rem can be used to enter the world of benchrest. Glue in action is common in BR.

Where are you located?

Rick

1132
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 29, 2009, 12:38:13 AM »
Quote from: Bill Leeper on December 28, 2009, 11:49:50 PM

Rick,
I think I put that wrong. I meant to say a smaller percentage of rifles would have been capable of agging in the teens. I'm sure we agree on that. Where we disagree is that I think they were technically capable of doing so but the shooter's expectations were a bit lower and lower expectations inevitably lead to poorer results. The point I am trying to make is that, in many respects, the equipment race is optional but shooter effort is not.
Now, Let's move on to components. Specifically, bullet design. Over the last 25 years or so, the trend has been toward bullets with longer ogives ans shorter bearing surfaces. In addition, the boattail fell out of favour entirely. Recently, there has been a bit of a resurrection of the boattail and, as well, some experimentation with shorter ogive bullets. Who likes what? Does anyone see a competitive monometal bullet in the future of the sport? Regards,   Bill.



Bill, I had dug up the winning aggs from 30 yrs ago then somehow lost the post last night, and decided to pack it in. Anyhow, here are some figures to try and put some context around this.  IBS winning 3-gun agg in 1979-1981 was in the 3's (Can't find if any teen aggs shot, but it can't be many with winnning 3-guns in the 3's) .

NBRSA winning agg in 3-gun in 2009 was .198". 19 out of top 20 positions in LV100 this year were in the teens. 13 Records fell this year at NBRSA Nats (yes it was a good week, but not a trigger pull - DanO will attest to that).

I think the shooters have the same tenacity to win today (in many cases it is the same 1 guy!), and in some cases the bullets and powder are inferior to 30 years ago (no Eubers or original 8208 today), and the wind is the same, and sand is still used to support the rifle at each end. By your own account most shooters had already started to move away from he Rem action around 1980, and yet the aggs continued to fall to the present day! Just based on the above I would argue that the rifles alone are responsible for about .100" improvement in the agging capability over the last 30 years. To be sure, we are at the point of diminishing returns, that was until this year when the NBRSA record book was demolished at the Nats!

I will give you this, an off the shelf BR rifle from 1980 "may" be competitive at the club level in 2010, since many people at the club shoot will have 1980's rifles in hand (myself among them!). I wouldn't want to take it to a Regional shoot or a National shoot. Very hot loads, 5 shot groups in 15 seconds, dual port ejector guns, cnc rifled barrels, stocks with keels, high mag scopes etc will all be working against you!

Bullets will have to wait for another day.

Rcik





1133
Centerfire Discussions / Bullet Making
« on: December 27, 2009, 12:47:13 PM »
Here is an article Dan Opel and I collaborated on in regards to making BR bullets. It is a Word file, probably not dial up friendly.

Technical Insight Article On Bullet Making

1134
Centerfire Discussions / Shooter Profiles
« on: December 27, 2009, 12:44:52 PM »
Here are Shooter Profiles I had posted on the webpage:

Dan Opel Shooter Profile
Calvin Yanchycki Shooter Profile

1135
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 11:07:29 PM »
Quote from: Bill Leeper on December 26, 2009, 10:51:47 PM
The same percentage of rifles thirty years ago would not agg in the teens.

Again we will have to disagree!

Regards,

Rick

1136
BR Equipment + Components / Re: Looking for benchrest primers
« on: December 26, 2009, 10:29:06 PM »
Quote from: MikeD on December 26, 2009, 10:10:08 PM
Anyone have an idea where to look. Wholesale sports in lethbridge has not had any for over a year.
Neither did Calgary Wholesale last time i checked or bass pro.

Mike I have been buying them off and on at Wholesale in Calgary. Supply seems to be improving. Haven't seen 205M's, just 205's. It is still hit and miss though. If you still need some in the Spring let me know. I have enough here to let 1000-2000 205's go. Probably have 3000-4000 WSM if you want to try those. PM me if any of this interests you.

1137
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 03:04:52 PM »
Quote from: Bill Leeper on December 26, 2009, 02:48:43 PM
Rick, there is little doubt that XP was modified to some extent but that doesn't change the fact that it was 1980-something rifle building technology. That people today choose to use one of the precise and commonly available (commonly available to those willing to wait, in some cases!) custom or semi-custom, precision actions instead of a modified Remington doesn't change the original premise; there is a lack of technological change. I'm sure Lester no longer uses, or even owns, that rifle but he probably doesn't wear the same shoes either. My only point was that real good rifles of thirty years ago may very well have been capable of competitive accuracy even by today's standards. This especially when used by today's best shooters.
In a backhanded way, I'm trying to point out that potential new shooters needn't fear the equipment they see on the line. None of it is in the least "magic". They are only rifle assemble using common machine shop techniques just as they have been for more than a quarter century. The new shooter doesn't need to cough up 1800 dollars for an action. He does need to have an action which is straight and concentric. He does need to have a good barrel, properly installed. The barreled action does have to be properly fitted and affixed to a stock designed to work well from the bench. He does need decent optics solidly attached to the rifle. All of these things can be accomplished just the same way they have been in the past. Now, the cold hard fact is this; a Remington rifle costs as much as many good precision actions so is hardly worth acquiring to use as the basis of a BR rifle. If, however, the Remington is the "bird in the hand" it might be worth considering. Regards,   Bill.

I understand your point Bill, I am just not sure I agree with it. A single teen agg shot 30 yrs ago with a modified Rem does not build the case that the rifles built back then are competitive today. I think we would all still be shooting them if that was the case. I am probably one of the most conservative equipment whores out there, and even I feel compelled  to get a right eject rifle, just to see if I can learn to shoot faster and get that extra shot in while the condition is holding. The top 20 positions at the nationals this year were in the teens. You could argue a good portion of the field in 2009 had rifles that could agg in the teens. I don't think you could make that same statement 30 years ago. i do agree we are still shooting the same basic layout; action, barrel, scope, stock, etc, however in terms of refinement I don't think they are essentially the same. Even with a Rem in hand, I don't think it is worth considering, other than to get your feet wet or dabble. That is likely where we differ.

1138
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / 2009 Alberta Provincials Sept 5,6,7 Results
« on: December 26, 2009, 02:44:33 PM »
Results
Match Report
Equipment List

1139
BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / Re: Clubs From The Past
« on: December 26, 2009, 02:13:04 PM »
Here are some vintage BRSC Match Reports (not dial up friendly!):

Oct 1980 BRSC News
Feb 1981 BRSC News
Sept 1983 BRSC News

1140
Centerfire Discussions / Re: Arrested development?
« on: December 26, 2009, 02:08:55 PM »
Quote from: Bill Leeper on December 26, 2009, 01:53:24 PM
In the mid-eighties, Lester Bruno fired a .17 something agg at the super shoot. His rifle was an XP100 action, unsleeved, glued into a glass stock. Hard to believe that rifle would not be competitive today!   Bill


I don't disagree with your major points Bill, but we should note that Lester isn't shooting that XP anymore (at least as far as I know). The XP action really isn't doing the shooter any favours today. At least not without spending so much time and money on it, that it essentially becomes a custom action in terms of cost and performance. For all we know in this discussion, that XP may have been an XP in name only. Maybe someone on here knows more about that rifle?

Rick

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