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BRSC - Benchrest Shooters Canada / A True Nationals
« on: December 22, 2009, 05:33:55 PM »
John VM said:
Out of curiosity would their be any interest in a true Canadian nationals or Super Shoot? If their is, would it be better in one location centrally located or alternatly East and West?
I am not trying to start anything but I do think it might make for an interesting discussion
rpollock said:
John,
there is interest in a "true" Nationals and a CDN Super Shoot as well. It comes up for discussions quite regularly. Due to the distances involved it seems to lose momentum. I for one would like to see the discussion advanced as well.
Bill Gammon said:
Back in the early years they held a SS out west and in 1978 started the Western, and Eastern Nationals. The Eastern stopped in 1995 or 96 not sure. I still have the Eastern Nationals trophy in my office, which I would like to get rid of. 1978 Bill Gammon, 1979 Harold Reger, 1980 Ed Joiner, 1981 Harry Hoppe, 1982 Jim Fedorowich, 1983 Bob DeMonstoy, 1984 Hendry Dunbar, 1985 Paul Burns, 1986 Paul Johnson, 1987 Dwight Scott, and then it jumps to 1996 Ken Rossing. Not sure why. I am in the process of scanning all of the SORS newsletters, maybe I will find out.
John VM said:
It is to bad some of these shoots did not continue. Personally I started around 1993 or 1994 and don't remember any of these events. The one event I remember was the Can-Am competition which was held for a few years in which one match was in London and the other was in Western Wayne every year. If I remember right, it was last won by the Canadian team and the trophy is some where in London
cyanchycki said:
The biggest issue I see is the distance required to travel be it east or west. How many are actually willing to travel to make it work? The east shooters have great shoots in the US which are within a few hours. Unfortunately the west has just Tacoma and that is not a short trip either. So would it work? Who knows? Centralizing it would be great for me but it still leaves long drives for the east and west shooters. Would east or west shooters drive to say Selkirk every other year if it was held in Selkirk?
I hear quite often you have not shot BR unless you have shot the big shoots in the US. I hate to be a skeptic but I cannot see the east shooters driving all that distance to shoot in a CDN SS when they are so close to some of the biggest matches in North America. I have even been told to miss the Nationals in the west and go to the SS or US nationals. I do not want to miss what we have here. I feel it is important to support the little we have in Canada.
I would like to be proven wrong.
DanO said:
I would also like to see a Canadian Nationals, but I do not think that we have the kind of commitment to make it happen. This is both in the volume of shooter and venues that would attract folks to commit to the time, cost and distance(s) to make it worth the effort vs. other available events.
Not a very positive response i know, but I would make an effort to attend such an event were it held.
IF the response was there by the shooters, who would have the time and energy to run such an event?? Which organization would be the one to sanction the event?? Unsanctioned as the SS is??
It is going to take a very committed individual(s) to get this idea off the ground, and I do wish them luck (they will get my support) if they do take the idea forward.
John VM said:
I agree that right now it isn't hopefull of having one in the near future but I do think it is good to talk about it and maybe visualize what could be done in the future. It is good to know what everybody else thinks about issues.
One issue I have is that I find the classes redundant as far as HV, LV and SP go and think a varmint for score and a group shoot together would make things more interesting.
Tony Gauthier said:
I think it is time for me to wade in to this one. A true National match is being held in Canada! At the BRSC annual meeting last August a motion was tabled and passed unanimously that the Western regional would become the National Match. This was done do largely to the fact that only 3 affiliated clubs are holding BRSC registered matches.
The trophy at this time says Western Regional Match and so we need to change that or make a new trophy, which is something that the executive are working on at this time. Paul is pricing a new trophy compared to fixing the existing one. I am pretty sure it will be just as cost effective to start out with a new one. We will have to decide if the original trophy will remain as is with the plaques in place or changed over to the new trophy. I am of the opinion that anyone who has won that trophy up until Aug. 2009 has won the Western Regional and so it should remain as it is and a new one started with Robert Seeman winning the first National’s. This is something the executive will work out over the winter once we have a cost of each.
As the bylaws and rules are set up at this time any affiliated club can bid on and host this match upon winning the bid. At present time it has been alternated between the 3 active clubs. I think that alternating between clubs is the most beneficial to generating interest in bench rest in Canada. It gives exposure to our sport in all active areas of Canada.
I think that the key words in this are active and affiliate and would like to hear what everyone’s idea of active is. Affiliate is obviously any club paying there BRSC dues.
If you look to the south they basically work the Nationals in the same way. They deal with the same geographical problems we do. When they are held in the East people spend a few days on the road. That is a given in our sport, it is part of our life. You have to just get over it and get ‘er done. The local clubs are so few and far between that it is not possible to supply enough shooting time to stay close to home if you want to get enough shooting in to be competitive, you will willingly travel if you are as hooked as I am. And there are becoming more and more shooters in Canada who are realizing this. We are at a great point in bench rest as we are seeing an increase in shooters at matches in the last couple of years.
That tells me that our direction has been working, maybe not as fast as we like or as it could, but is working. Now is the time to figure out how to improve our direction to improve our results. We need the input of every bench rest shooter to do this and what better place than on the only Canadian bench rest forum?
Tony Gauthier said:
[cyanchycki:] "The biggest issue I see is the distance required to travel be it east or west. How many are actually willing to travel to make it work? The east shooters have great shoots in the US which are within a few hours. Unfortunately the west has just Tacoma and that is not a short trip either. So would it work? Who knows? Centralizing it would be great for me but it still leaves long drives for the east and west shooters. Would east or west shooters drive to say Selkirk every other year if it was held in Selkirk?
I hear quite often you have not shot BR unless you have shot the big shoots in the US. I hate to be a skeptic but I cannot see the east shooters driving all that distance to shoot in a CDN SS when they are so close to some of the biggest matches in North America. I have even been told to miss the Nationals in the west and go to the SS or US nationals. I do not want to miss what we have here. I feel it is important to support the little we have in Canada.
I would like to be proven wrong."[cyanchycki:]
Actually there are a few more matches in the west and some of them much closer for you, just not in Canada. Montana matches are being held in Helena and Billings. I am not sure if the Prairie Dog Target Club in south Dakota is holding matches, but if so, how far of a drive from Brandon would that be? I think it would be fun to hit one of the Montana matches. Helena would be doable for me as I could leave from work and be there on a friday evening.
I wish Lethbridge would hold a couple of matches. I wouldn't be surprised if they still had all of the equipment required. A few more clubs holding matches would also take the pressure off of the 3 in western Canada that are. I think that you may see a few U.S. shooters at a match in Lethbridge as it is a short trip for some of them!
John VM said:
It is good to hear that the BRSC has already picked up on a National event. I do have to plead ignorance on Benchrest in Western Canada. I have personally met Dan O and Jeff W at the World Shoot in 05 and at the previous Super Shoot. Could someone help and introduce some of us easterners to what it is like shooting in the west. I am genuinely interested in the size of the range as in how many benches and locations of the ranges? How many clubs at one time or another hosted BR matches?
Tony Gauthier said:
Rosebud has 14 benches and is situated in Kananaskis Prov. Park. Beautiful location, but like any range built on the side of a mountain it can be tricky with conditions.
Regina has approx. 20 benches and is no where near a mountain! It has some strong winds but usually repeat.
Selkirk is fairly sheltered by trees, but you need to watch for Mosquitos. There are lots and some are big enough to cause flyers. (that is my excuse and am sticking to it). It and Rosebud also have wasps but please see that story in off topic.
John VM said:
I have not been to Western Canada but from memory the Rosebud is in Alberta and the Regina club is of course in Sask. and Selkirk is in Man.. I have relatives in Carman Man. and have heard about the migration of the mosquitos but am just learning of the wasps through the adventures of our good friend and competitor Calvin. Thanks Tony!
Bill Gammon said:
If you look to the south they basically work the Nationals in the same way. They deal with the same geographical problems we do. When they are held in the East people spend a few days on the road. That is a given in our sport, it is part of our life. You have to just get over it and get ‘er done. The local clubs are so few and far between that it is not possible to supply enough shooting time to stay close to home if you want to get enough shooting in to be competitive, you will willingly travel if you are as hooked as I am. And there are becoming more and more shooters in Canada who are realizing this. We are at a great point in bench rest as we are seeing an increase in shooters at matches in the last couple of years.
I suggest to you that the only reason you are seeing an increase in shooters is because you have a govering body such as BRSC that now has an executive and who are collectively working to-gether to creat a country wide association, and I hope, "country wide" being the KEY words. You must have a governing body of people who are accountable to the membership! Without this, you will be nothing, the asoc. will be nothing. Look at the clubs in your area, they all have a governing body set up to be accountable to the membership, that "I believe" to be the key. I could quote a couple of examples but would probably get kicked off of here, EH!
cyanchycki said:
Bill I hear what you are saying. I personally feel you shooters in the south part of Ontario have a definate advantage over us in the west when it comes to access to stiff competition. What is it? A few hours for you into Michigan and you get to shoot against some pretty good shooters? Living in Manitoba I definately have a FULL 2 days drive if I want to attend a major event more realistically possibly closer to 3 if I want to drive sensibly.
I do hope and want to see BRSC succeed. I think it can and will if we work together and leave the east versus west thing in the back forty. I do not know all the history about the past be it good or bad but those of us who love this sport have to move on to pass it on to the next group of new shooters. For example there are 4 new shooters at Selkirk who are committed to the sport myself being 1 and my new buddies from Kenora.
Matches should be registered through the BRSC in the east and west. Shooters who want to compete should be a member of the BRSC to take any hardware home. Unfortunately it may be like starting anew but we must start somewhere.
To have a TRUE Canadian SS(Nationals) it realistically should be held every second year. Again we would ALL have to be on the same page. Those shooters who frequent the US SS or Nationals could maybe do so every other year to support the Canadian shoot. The following year we could maybe go as a group to the SS or Nationals to still show our Canadian support in the US?
JMO's
Calvin
Out of curiosity would their be any interest in a true Canadian nationals or Super Shoot? If their is, would it be better in one location centrally located or alternatly East and West?
I am not trying to start anything but I do think it might make for an interesting discussion
rpollock said:
John,
there is interest in a "true" Nationals and a CDN Super Shoot as well. It comes up for discussions quite regularly. Due to the distances involved it seems to lose momentum. I for one would like to see the discussion advanced as well.
Bill Gammon said:
Back in the early years they held a SS out west and in 1978 started the Western, and Eastern Nationals. The Eastern stopped in 1995 or 96 not sure. I still have the Eastern Nationals trophy in my office, which I would like to get rid of. 1978 Bill Gammon, 1979 Harold Reger, 1980 Ed Joiner, 1981 Harry Hoppe, 1982 Jim Fedorowich, 1983 Bob DeMonstoy, 1984 Hendry Dunbar, 1985 Paul Burns, 1986 Paul Johnson, 1987 Dwight Scott, and then it jumps to 1996 Ken Rossing. Not sure why. I am in the process of scanning all of the SORS newsletters, maybe I will find out.
John VM said:
It is to bad some of these shoots did not continue. Personally I started around 1993 or 1994 and don't remember any of these events. The one event I remember was the Can-Am competition which was held for a few years in which one match was in London and the other was in Western Wayne every year. If I remember right, it was last won by the Canadian team and the trophy is some where in London
cyanchycki said:
The biggest issue I see is the distance required to travel be it east or west. How many are actually willing to travel to make it work? The east shooters have great shoots in the US which are within a few hours. Unfortunately the west has just Tacoma and that is not a short trip either. So would it work? Who knows? Centralizing it would be great for me but it still leaves long drives for the east and west shooters. Would east or west shooters drive to say Selkirk every other year if it was held in Selkirk?
I hear quite often you have not shot BR unless you have shot the big shoots in the US. I hate to be a skeptic but I cannot see the east shooters driving all that distance to shoot in a CDN SS when they are so close to some of the biggest matches in North America. I have even been told to miss the Nationals in the west and go to the SS or US nationals. I do not want to miss what we have here. I feel it is important to support the little we have in Canada.
I would like to be proven wrong.
DanO said:
I would also like to see a Canadian Nationals, but I do not think that we have the kind of commitment to make it happen. This is both in the volume of shooter and venues that would attract folks to commit to the time, cost and distance(s) to make it worth the effort vs. other available events.
Not a very positive response i know, but I would make an effort to attend such an event were it held.
IF the response was there by the shooters, who would have the time and energy to run such an event?? Which organization would be the one to sanction the event?? Unsanctioned as the SS is??
It is going to take a very committed individual(s) to get this idea off the ground, and I do wish them luck (they will get my support) if they do take the idea forward.
John VM said:
I agree that right now it isn't hopefull of having one in the near future but I do think it is good to talk about it and maybe visualize what could be done in the future. It is good to know what everybody else thinks about issues.
One issue I have is that I find the classes redundant as far as HV, LV and SP go and think a varmint for score and a group shoot together would make things more interesting.
Tony Gauthier said:
I think it is time for me to wade in to this one. A true National match is being held in Canada! At the BRSC annual meeting last August a motion was tabled and passed unanimously that the Western regional would become the National Match. This was done do largely to the fact that only 3 affiliated clubs are holding BRSC registered matches.
The trophy at this time says Western Regional Match and so we need to change that or make a new trophy, which is something that the executive are working on at this time. Paul is pricing a new trophy compared to fixing the existing one. I am pretty sure it will be just as cost effective to start out with a new one. We will have to decide if the original trophy will remain as is with the plaques in place or changed over to the new trophy. I am of the opinion that anyone who has won that trophy up until Aug. 2009 has won the Western Regional and so it should remain as it is and a new one started with Robert Seeman winning the first National’s. This is something the executive will work out over the winter once we have a cost of each.
As the bylaws and rules are set up at this time any affiliated club can bid on and host this match upon winning the bid. At present time it has been alternated between the 3 active clubs. I think that alternating between clubs is the most beneficial to generating interest in bench rest in Canada. It gives exposure to our sport in all active areas of Canada.
I think that the key words in this are active and affiliate and would like to hear what everyone’s idea of active is. Affiliate is obviously any club paying there BRSC dues.
If you look to the south they basically work the Nationals in the same way. They deal with the same geographical problems we do. When they are held in the East people spend a few days on the road. That is a given in our sport, it is part of our life. You have to just get over it and get ‘er done. The local clubs are so few and far between that it is not possible to supply enough shooting time to stay close to home if you want to get enough shooting in to be competitive, you will willingly travel if you are as hooked as I am. And there are becoming more and more shooters in Canada who are realizing this. We are at a great point in bench rest as we are seeing an increase in shooters at matches in the last couple of years.
That tells me that our direction has been working, maybe not as fast as we like or as it could, but is working. Now is the time to figure out how to improve our direction to improve our results. We need the input of every bench rest shooter to do this and what better place than on the only Canadian bench rest forum?
Tony Gauthier said:
[cyanchycki:] "The biggest issue I see is the distance required to travel be it east or west. How many are actually willing to travel to make it work? The east shooters have great shoots in the US which are within a few hours. Unfortunately the west has just Tacoma and that is not a short trip either. So would it work? Who knows? Centralizing it would be great for me but it still leaves long drives for the east and west shooters. Would east or west shooters drive to say Selkirk every other year if it was held in Selkirk?
I hear quite often you have not shot BR unless you have shot the big shoots in the US. I hate to be a skeptic but I cannot see the east shooters driving all that distance to shoot in a CDN SS when they are so close to some of the biggest matches in North America. I have even been told to miss the Nationals in the west and go to the SS or US nationals. I do not want to miss what we have here. I feel it is important to support the little we have in Canada.
I would like to be proven wrong."[cyanchycki:]
Actually there are a few more matches in the west and some of them much closer for you, just not in Canada. Montana matches are being held in Helena and Billings. I am not sure if the Prairie Dog Target Club in south Dakota is holding matches, but if so, how far of a drive from Brandon would that be? I think it would be fun to hit one of the Montana matches. Helena would be doable for me as I could leave from work and be there on a friday evening.
I wish Lethbridge would hold a couple of matches. I wouldn't be surprised if they still had all of the equipment required. A few more clubs holding matches would also take the pressure off of the 3 in western Canada that are. I think that you may see a few U.S. shooters at a match in Lethbridge as it is a short trip for some of them!
John VM said:
It is good to hear that the BRSC has already picked up on a National event. I do have to plead ignorance on Benchrest in Western Canada. I have personally met Dan O and Jeff W at the World Shoot in 05 and at the previous Super Shoot. Could someone help and introduce some of us easterners to what it is like shooting in the west. I am genuinely interested in the size of the range as in how many benches and locations of the ranges? How many clubs at one time or another hosted BR matches?
Tony Gauthier said:
Rosebud has 14 benches and is situated in Kananaskis Prov. Park. Beautiful location, but like any range built on the side of a mountain it can be tricky with conditions.
Regina has approx. 20 benches and is no where near a mountain! It has some strong winds but usually repeat.
Selkirk is fairly sheltered by trees, but you need to watch for Mosquitos. There are lots and some are big enough to cause flyers. (that is my excuse and am sticking to it). It and Rosebud also have wasps but please see that story in off topic.
John VM said:
I have not been to Western Canada but from memory the Rosebud is in Alberta and the Regina club is of course in Sask. and Selkirk is in Man.. I have relatives in Carman Man. and have heard about the migration of the mosquitos but am just learning of the wasps through the adventures of our good friend and competitor Calvin. Thanks Tony!
Bill Gammon said:
If you look to the south they basically work the Nationals in the same way. They deal with the same geographical problems we do. When they are held in the East people spend a few days on the road. That is a given in our sport, it is part of our life. You have to just get over it and get ‘er done. The local clubs are so few and far between that it is not possible to supply enough shooting time to stay close to home if you want to get enough shooting in to be competitive, you will willingly travel if you are as hooked as I am. And there are becoming more and more shooters in Canada who are realizing this. We are at a great point in bench rest as we are seeing an increase in shooters at matches in the last couple of years.
I suggest to you that the only reason you are seeing an increase in shooters is because you have a govering body such as BRSC that now has an executive and who are collectively working to-gether to creat a country wide association, and I hope, "country wide" being the KEY words. You must have a governing body of people who are accountable to the membership! Without this, you will be nothing, the asoc. will be nothing. Look at the clubs in your area, they all have a governing body set up to be accountable to the membership, that "I believe" to be the key. I could quote a couple of examples but would probably get kicked off of here, EH!
cyanchycki said:
Bill I hear what you are saying. I personally feel you shooters in the south part of Ontario have a definate advantage over us in the west when it comes to access to stiff competition. What is it? A few hours for you into Michigan and you get to shoot against some pretty good shooters? Living in Manitoba I definately have a FULL 2 days drive if I want to attend a major event more realistically possibly closer to 3 if I want to drive sensibly.
I do hope and want to see BRSC succeed. I think it can and will if we work together and leave the east versus west thing in the back forty. I do not know all the history about the past be it good or bad but those of us who love this sport have to move on to pass it on to the next group of new shooters. For example there are 4 new shooters at Selkirk who are committed to the sport myself being 1 and my new buddies from Kenora.
Matches should be registered through the BRSC in the east and west. Shooters who want to compete should be a member of the BRSC to take any hardware home. Unfortunately it may be like starting anew but we must start somewhere.
To have a TRUE Canadian SS(Nationals) it realistically should be held every second year. Again we would ALL have to be on the same page. Those shooters who frequent the US SS or Nationals could maybe do so every other year to support the Canadian shoot. The following year we could maybe go as a group to the SS or Nationals to still show our Canadian support in the US?
JMO's
Calvin