Reloading 6ppc..Advice Needed

[DSIMON]

Hello All,
My first post and a lot of questions.
I am currently putting together a 6ppc rifle for br shooting.
I'm new to 6ppc,so have some reloading questions.
I have an arbor press and a standard press to load on.
I've got the 6ppc cases necked down to .262.
The barrel I will be using is a Mclennan 13.5 twist.
I'm pretty well open on dies and bullets and any other tools I may need.
I was thinking trying the Berger 68gr.Match FB bullets to start with.
I've also used the Wilson Neck sizing and seating dies and was thinking of buying a pair of those.
Yes, I am a newbie and welcome all advice.
Thanks,
Derrick

[rpollock]

Hello All,
My first post and a lot of questions.
I am currently putting together a 6ppc rifle for br shooting.
I'm new to 6ppc,so have some reloading questions.
I have an arbor press and a standard press to load on.
I've got the 6ppc cases necked down to .262.
The barrel I will be using is a Mclennan 13.5 twist.
I'm pretty well open on dies and bullets and any other tools I may need.
I was thinking trying the Berger 68gr.Match FB bullets to start with.
I've also used the Wilson Neck sizing and seating dies and was thinking of buying a pair of those.
Yes, I am a newbie and welcome all advice.
Thanks,
Derrick

Derrick,

You are on the right path. The 68 Bergers will be fine. One day when you want to experiment you can try custom bullets.

As far as the seater, the Wilson seater and an arbour press is pretty standard and very popular. For the sizer you can use the Wilson, but the threaded dies are more popular, such as the Redding. Don't get a neck sizer, you will need something that will squeeze the body as well. You also can use one of the custom dies. The one I like is the Harrels http://www.harrellsprec.com/ What you do, is send 3 pieces of brass that have been fired several times and they will choose one of their dies that will give the correct amount of squeeze and bump on the brass. Seems to me it is about $70USd but well worth it. It takes a few weeks.

Rick

[cyanchycki]

Everything Rick said is correct.  I will expand a bit more on what he said.

In regards to bullets, yes, if you have easy access to Berger bullets go for it.  If you want to try more, talk to your fellow shooters from the East.  Bill Gammon would be a GREAT start.  He may be able to guide you in the direction of access to match bullets like Bart’s or Hottenstein in your part of the country, as well as access to powder.  
If you want Dan Opel of Opel bullets makes fine Match bullets which he shoots and I shoot as well.  There are more people starting to shoot his bullets all the time.  I will tell you that my best targets have been shot with Dan’s bullets.

In the word of dies, in the west, we use threaded sizing dies.  Redding or custom dies like the Harrell’s.  As Rick stated if you go Redding make sure it is the 2 die set that has the sizing die that takes neck bushings and bumps the shoulder back at the same time.  Get 2 or 3 different size bushings as well while you are at it.  Shooting the PPC requires moving the shoulder back a couple thou every time.  A custom Harrell die is the best way to go.  If you have your own reamer, the ONLY way to go as your chamber will be cut the same every time.  If you are using your gunsmith’s reamer and depending how many chambers it cuts or he changes the reamer your die should change as well.

In regards to bullet seaters, the Wilson in-line with an arbour press is the norm.
Basically spend the money on GREAT dies versus the expensive presses.  I just use a sloppy RCBS Partner press for sizing with my Harrell die.  In time when you are ready you can buy a fancy fan dangled Hood or Harrell press.
This should get you started.

Now when you say you have the brass sized down to .262, I take it you mean neck turned down so a loaded round mics at approx 1.5 to 2 thou smaller than .262?  Like around .260.  

[DSIMON]

Thanks Rick and cyanchycki for your help.
I do not have overly easy access to Bergers,but didn,t know that I may be able to get custom bullets here in Canada.
I will explore that avenue.
Understand that I have never competed and have to get up to speed on where I can get  some of my custom supplies. I haven,t even attended  a competition,so I haven,t been able to meet shooters and ask questions.
I think the Wilson inline seating die and Harrels die sound like the way to go.
I have the arbor press and a good single stage press.
Joe Groetch is going to build the rifle for me and he will supply the reamer.
Yes it is a .262 chamber and my brass is at .260....my apologies for not making that clear..
I thought I would use Vihtavuori N133 powder to start.
If I go the Harrels route and the Wilson seater,how do I procede.
I take my new unfired rifle with new unfired brass.
Should I use an expander mandel on the new Lapua brass,before I load it.
How do you fireform your brass?
Do I trim before  fireform?
How do I necksize the cases  for fireforming if if I have to send the fired cases to Harrells first and wait for the die.
If I have to fire the cases several times before sending them off,don,t I have to size them each time I fire them.
God, loading .223 and 6mmbr was like being on Sesame Street.
I admit I am dumb to loading 6ppc,but once somebody sets me straight,I'm good to go.
Thanks for your help.

[rpollock]

Yes it is a .262 chamber and my brass is at .260....my apologies for not making that clear..
Turn the brass to .085" and that will get you to .260 on the loaded round. Probably use a bushing around .258 on the sizer.

I thought I would use Vihtavuori N133 powder to start. Good place to start, use a 63-68 gr bullet.

If I go the Harrels route and the Wilson seater,how do I procede.
I take my new unfired rifle with new unfired brass.
Should I use an expander mandel on the new Lapua brass,before I load it.
You will need to expand prior neck turning, then it should hold a bullet for fireforming, without having to size it.

How do you fireform your brass? Use a bullet around that 63-68, doesn't really matter much, just don't stick a heavy bullet in there or it will be too high pressure. and as much N133 (assuming new unfired Lapua 220 Russian) as it will hold.

Do I trim before  fireform? For length maybe, it should be around 1.500", much longer than that and you should trim it back.

How do I necksize the cases  for fireforming if if I have to send the fired cases to Harrells first and wait for the die.
If I have to fire the cases several times before sending them off,don,t I have to size them each time I fire them.
If you go this route you should still have enough grip to just hold the bullet in place for 2-3 firings due to elasticity. Not recommended for matches, but to get a few shots of fireformed brass to send to Harrels it should work. You don't really want to resize it, as this will give a more accurate shape of the chamber for Harrels to measure up

God, loading .223 and 6mmbr was like being on Sesame Street.
Not really! You will be learning about tight necks and brass bumping, but the other principles are the same!

Rick

[cyanchycki]

In turning necks you will have run the brass over the expander mandrel.   That mandrel is a mate to the brand of turner you are using.  For example I use a K&M turner so I use a K&M expander mandrel.
 
The first thing I do when I turn necks is expand.  I use Imperial Sizing wax on the inside of the neck and not sparingly.  When expanded, I trim the overall length to the longest case in the box.  It usually is in the 1.500 range.  You could give a very light de burr of the neck if you choose at this time.
 
I used to not trim my cases before turning but it is nice knowing that all the cases should be pretty close to the same where the cutter cuts slightly into the neck shoulder junction. Now you are ready to turn the necks.

Setting up the depth the turner cuts is done a few ways. Trial and error, or buy using feeler gauges.  A ball micrometer is handy to have as well but is not necessary.  The micrometer and feeler gauges go hand in hand when setting up that way.   An outside micrometer helps when taking the outside neck measurements of a case with a bullet seated to make sure you have the right finished diameter. Digital callipers work to but I prefer the other.  Basically I may end up wasting a case or 2 getting the cutter to the right depth but when set it is set.  Make sure that the cutter goes slightly into the neck shoulder junction when turning.

Now since you have a .262 neck you probably have 2 neck turners or should for ease.  It will take a couple passes to get the necks down to the required thickness.  I use a .269 neck and can do it in one pass.

For lube on the inside and outside of the necks and mandrel of the cutter, I switched to a heavy oil like STP or heavy gear oil.  I find it cuts better than using Imperial sizing wax.  Use it generously.  Just make sure after you are done turning you get the oil off the cases and out of the inside.  I use rags and tooth picks with naptha fuel.  You could wash and rinse with hot soapy water.  Dry the cases and you are ready to load.

I do de burr the flash holes with a K&M de burring tool.  It is one of the better I have used.  It is set to take a very light cut on the inside.  Some you adjust yourself but I found this one to be a no brainer to use.  For primer pocket cleaning and uniforming any brand will work. Just make sure it is for the small primer pocket but for Lapua cases.  A regular small primer is not the same.
The rest is as Rick said.

Calvin 

[DSIMON]

Rick & Calvin,
I want to thank you guys for taking the time to help me out .
I know you are busy getting this site up and running,so for you to take this extra time is
beyond the call of duty..
Your info is invaluable and just what I  needed.
I bought all the parts for this build from a good friend who decided to go a different route.
I bought 100 pcs. of new Lapua brass with all the parts.
They are turned and ready to fire for this rifle.
The rifle won,t be ready till sometime in March.
I will next buy some 220 Russian brass and turn it myself..
I will report back after I have made some headway on this journey..
Derrick

[Gary Cain]

The gentleman that is building the gun for you is more than capable to answer all of your reloading qustions. Joe is not only a gunsmith but a bench rest shooter as well.
Gary

[John VM]

Gary is right, Joe is very knowledgable in his work and in the game. He helped me get started and has done a fair bit of work for me and he helped me get started in this game.

[DSIMON]

I'm going to be meeting up with Joe next week to drop off all the parts
for my rifle.
I'll be asking him some questions for sure.
Today I met up with Rob Mclennan and picked up my barrel.
It was a pleasure to meet Rob and he was gracious enough to
answer my 101 questions.
I asked him how I should break in my barrel.
He replied "Clean after each shot.
I asked"How many times"
He replied " For the first 600 rounds.
We both had a good laugh and I realized what a down to earth guy he was with a great sense of humor..

[BABYLON5]

Curious why the recommendation is not to use a neck sizing die. I  use one for my Ruger 6ppc USA and it seems to work great. i can neck size for at least 6 loads before i need to full length size. From what I understand if the case's are always going into the same rifle they where fired in a neck only size is fine and it works the brass a lot less than full length sizing and this allows a longer case life..

[cyanchycki]

Babylon, there is so much misunderstanding at what is meant by NECK SIZING ONLY.  You will find SOME chambers where you can get away with just neck sizing.  I had such a beast in a SAKO TRG in 30-06.  The brass NEVER grew at all and I could just neck size over and over again.

The concept of neck sizing is to use a die where you can control how much neck tension you pass on to your sized brass.  The dies that the majority of shooters who shoot 6PPC use (99.9%) neck bushings and FULL LENGTH SIZE the ENTIRE case as well.  These dies are MATCHED to the chamber that is cut in our rifles.  With the pressures that are being run in these cases sooner or later the case needs to be squeezed.  Harrels dies are such a beast.  Brass life is that much better when there is CONTROLLED sizing of the entire case right from its first firing.  Many think that when full length sizing we are aggresively sizing the case but we are not.  The entire case is squeezed maybe 2-3 thou over its entire surface thus giving easy bolt closure and easy extraction.  I was having issues with the dreaded stiff bolt lift with my 1.5 Harrell die.  I bought a 2.5 and thought I could squeeze the many times fired cases down.  Uh Uh.  Did not work.  To work hardened.  Started with a fresh batch of brass and the 2.5 die and my problems of stiff bolt lift are gone.  Hope this gives some insight for you.

Calvin