Author Topic: More questions.  (Read 3457 times)

Offline TheGrandEnigma

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More questions.
« on: March 23, 2010, 12:33:28 AM »
Like I said before, I'm really new to this whole thing, so please humor me and answer some questions.  :)

A little background:  I'm interested in short range BR shooting for groups, not score.  I've tried to answer as much as I could of my own questions, but internet pages leave a guy wanting, and it's SO much easier to "hear" it rather than "read" it. (Ok, it's a forum, I know I'll be reading responses, but you know what I mean.)  :P

1)  What makes a competition gun more accurate than a dressed-up factory gun?  More rigid action?  Tighter tolerances?  Truer Action?  Better stock design/bedding?  (On a side note, did I understand correctly that some people actually glue their actions in, not just bedded?  No screws or anything?)  Better (more uniform) materials?   Did I miss anything?

2)  Stocks seem to be made of laminated wood, (or composites?) is there any other materials used for this?

3)  Is there a point chambering a short range BR gun to anything but 6PPC?  What other rounds are competitive?  Does it make a difference between 100, 200 or 300 yrds?  6BR?  The .222 still work?  Are .30s at that much of a disadvantage?  Are .224 caliber rounds competitive?

4)  What equipment makes a complete setup (aside from rifle)?  Rests (front and back), ammo boxes, requisite gun care products, notebooks/logbooks, a reloading setup, and something to move it all?

I'm sure I could think of more but maybe I'll just leave these here for now.  I know it's a novel, just answer at your leisure, no rush.  Thanks in advance for the patience.  :)
See you around the Forum,


Matt M

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 07:39:43 AM »
Like I said before, I'm really new to this whole thing, so please humor me and answer some questions.   

A little background:  I'm interested in short range BR shooting for groups, not score.  I've tried to answer as much as I could of my own questions, but internet pages leave a guy wanting, and it's SO much easier to "hear" it rather than "read" it. (Ok, it's a forum, I know I'll be reading responses, but you know what I mean.)   

1)  What makes a competition gun more accurate than a dressed-up factory gun?  More rigid action?  Tighter tolerances?  Truer Action?  Better stock design/bedding?  (On a side note, did I understand correctly that some people actually glue their actions in, not just bedded?  No screws or anything?)  Better (more uniform) materials?   Did I miss anything?

The answer to your above questions is YES to ALL of the above.  Factory actions are mass produced with chambers to conform to the mass population.  Chambers are Sami spec to accept MOST if not all brands of factory ammunition.  With aftermarket actions the tolerances are a LOT tighter.  These actions are something that really do not work well in hunting situations as it would not take much to possibly bind the bolt.

Stock design is intended for one purpose, shooting off of a rest and bags.  Most stocks used are combinations of fiberglass, light woods and carbon fiber materials assembles in a manner that makes them stable and rigid where required.

Years ago the trend was to glue the actions into stocks as the stocks of the day were not as rigid.  I guess you could say soft and were more prone to crushing when the actions were tightened into the stock.  Thus came along gluing in the actions with epoxies which could easily be released by applying heat or cold or a combination of both to pop the action out of the stock.  Today the trend is toward pillar bedding and screwing the actions as the stocks are better.  Some still prefer to glue in after the initial bedding.  It is up to the customer and your gunsmith to decide that.

2)  Stocks seem to be made of laminated wood, (or composites?) is there any other materials used for this?

I guess I answered that above.  Fiberglass, light cedars with carbon fiber, or carbon fiber are the most common.  It all comes down to weight of the rifle.  It is impossible to build a GOOD 10.5 lb rifle with a laminated stock. To heavy.  You could build a HV at 13.5 lbs with one.  Composite materials should be more stable as they are not affected by moisture like woods.

3)  Is there a point chambering a short range BR gun to anything but 6PPC?  What other rounds are competitive?  Does it make a difference between 100, 200 or 300 yrds?  6BR?  The .222 still work?  Are .30s at that much of a disadvantage?  Are .224 caliber rounds competitive?

Honestly the 6PPC rules so if you are planning of building or rebarreling a rifle it is the ONLY choice.  Even as a Varmint round out to 300 it is STUNINGLY ACCURATE.  If you want to shoot out to 600 then the 6BR would be the way to go a little more case capacity.  If you had a 222 already and were maybe thinking of trying BR it would work to get your feet wet.  There are good 22 cal bullets available but still not like the 6mm.  Forget a 30.  They are good in score but you have to contend with added recoil.  Trust me shoot a 6PPC all day and you will be glad you are not shooting a 30, it is tiring enough.  Some .22 cals can be competitive like the PPC variants PPC short, Walldog but do yourself a favor and go straight 6PPC.  Do it right…..

4)  What equipment makes a complete setup (aside from rifle)?  Rests (front and back), ammo boxes, requisite gun care products, notebooks/logbooks, a reloading setup, and something to move it all?

Good solid front rest and rear bag are definitely important in how well your rifle will track.  The setup of them on the table is also important.  There are many great rests out there today SEB, Farley, Hayes, JJ and the list goes on.  A cheaper starter alternative is a Cowan rest.  Bags front and rear, go with something with a fabric top and fabric ears.  Edgewood, SEB,or even Protektor have these.  It aids in how freely your rifle breaks free under recoil.

Ammo boxes, now you are starting to talk about accessories.  Minor details.  I have nice wood boxes and I have plano 50 round shell boxes.  They do not make you a better shooter just make you look trendy. 

It is nice to keep a log of your loads and any notes of how your shooting went for your relay or match.  Maybe a condition that worked for you or a note to remember why you lost a shot out of the group.

Cases to move your items to and fro, keep them as compact as possible.  Again these are minor items.  I use a case from Sinclair for my rest, a couple small Pelicans, one for the rest bags and items needed at the shooting bench.  The other holds my press, bullets, primers and powder.  A Mastercraft plastic tool box with 3 pullout drawers as my loading box.  Another Mastercraft holds my flags.  I have a larger toolbox that holds my flag poles. 

I'm sure I could think of more but maybe I'll just leave these here for now.  I know it's a novel, just answer at your leisure, no rush.  Thanks in advance for the patience.

This should give you a start.
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline TheGrandEnigma

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 12:48:49 PM »
Wow, thanks for that.

Does a shooter have to tailor his (or her) loads to the specific conditions for a given day, or can you use the same load generically?  If tailoring is needed, do you just adjust the load or are there other concerns as well?

Edit:  What about compensators?  I've heard about guys with wild things attached to thier barrels that are supposed to help tune the rifle.  I'm thinking like a BOSS device.  Are these devices common?  Legal? 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 12:51:22 PM by TheGrandEnigma »
See you around the Forum,


Matt M

Offline RJohansen

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 02:19:28 PM »
Wow, thanks for that.

Does a shooter have to tailor his (or her) loads to the specific conditions for a given day, or can you use the same load generically?  If tailoring is needed, do you just adjust the load or are there other concerns as well?

Edit:  What about compensators?  I've heard about guys with wild things attached to thier barrels that are supposed to help tune the rifle.  I'm thinking like a BOSS device.  Are these devices common?  Legal? 

Most guys will tune slightly for the day though you can get by without doing it. Lots of guys will go pre-loaded and still do alright. Experiance will dictate the route you will choose. As far as compensators go I think they are legal as long as there are no ports to disturb your benchmates. Tunners seem to showing up more often but no one wants to shoot beside a muzzle brake.  RAndy

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 04:56:53 PM »
As Randy mentioned.  Most have a pet load that they will start with that they have determined to be a good starting load.  This load is usually devoloped in practice and confirmed in match conditions or at a match.  Most shooters will do some practice the day and confirm there load and tweek as necessary.  When match day comes different shooters have different ways of keeping or trying to keep there gun in tune.  This tweeking comes with experience and lots of shooting over flags and knowing when and why a bullet was lost out of the group.

In regards to compensators I take it you mean muzzle brakes????  They are a NO NO in short range Benchrest, NOT ALLOWED.

The device you are talking about is a muzzle tuner when has slowly been gaining popularity.  Basically the shooter has a load he has developed and verified in practice before a match.  As the day goes on and groups start to open up the tuner is adjusted slightly to compensate for these changes to help bring it back into tune.
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 07:10:11 PM »
The most important accessory you will need and hasn't been mentioned are wind flags. An absolute must have!

Offline TheGrandEnigma

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 08:55:46 PM »
Reading those is another one of those "experience" things I guess, huh? 

You guys aree fantastic, thanks for all the info!
See you around the Forum,


Matt M

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: More questions.
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 05:45:54 AM »
Reading those is another one of those "experience" things I guess, huh? 

You guys aree fantastic, thanks for all the info!

Sometimes they lie no matter how much experience you have!

 

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