New Norma 6PPC Brass some info

[cyanchycki]

A fellow I know gave me a call the other day and mentioned he had a piece of the new Norma Brass from the local gun store.  Dave Kiff sent 4 pieces with a order that was sent to the store.

I had to get one and get some measurements off of it and see what it is like in comparison to Lapua.

First impression, looks like a fired Lapua 220 Russian case.  It appears to not have the blue have from annealing but is suspect they tumble the brass before packaging.

Overall length of my piece was 1.506"

The flash hole appears to be deburred.  When I ran my K&M deburring tool it did not remove any material.

Primer pocket cleaned up but did not have to cut nearly what I have seen my Lapua.

In regards to neck thickness I cannot say as I do not have a ball micrometer.

I did trim to 1.500 and chamferred and deburred the case mouth.

I then measured one of my Opel 64.5 gr bullets at the pressure ring and it measured at .2433".  I seated the bullet and measured the outside diameter of the neck with seated bullet and got a flat .2654"

Anyways it looks like it would be good brass for a no turn 6PPC of say .267 or .268 neck.  It would definately be a one pass cleanup for the guys/gals shooting the smaller .261/.262 necks

[rpollock]

Calvin,

Sounds promising especially for the guys shooting a .262 neck as you say. Looks to have about .011" wall thickness in the neck according to your measurements.

Hope it is better than the old norma at holding pressure. They did have a reputation for being soft.

Any idea where we might find it in Canada?

Rick

[cyanchycki]

Rick you are pretty much on with the wall thickness.  I just used my digital calipers and it was around that.

I have no idea but something tells me Peter Dobson would possibly.

I will get a e-mail to him to find out...

Calvin

[alaturnas]

calvin, are you sure the brass wasnt 1.56?

[cyanchycki]

No definately 1.506"

[alaturnas]

sorry calvin, i had 6mmbr on the brain!

[BABYLON5]

New to this forum. Looking for a source of 6ppc brass in canada.

All the places seem to be in the US and they won't ship to canada without paying $250-$400 extra for an export permit.. I want to pick up about 500 cases so I can load up for  trip down to the southern USA for some
varmint hunting..
And since i don't shoot constantly this should be enough to lst me a lifetime.

From what I hear the 6ppc USA chamber can use both 6ppcUSA and 6PPC BR (benchrest /non USA) brass.

I have a ruger 77 MKII NV in 6ppc USA.

Its topped with a Bausch and Lomb 6-24 Elite with adjustable objective.. A very heavy combo but reduces the kick enough that my 11 year old son can shot it (and he really does like to shoot). I have attached a picture of him out at the galt sportmens club rifle range in Cambridge...

I currently have only SAKO brass that seems to be holding up quite well. I load it with 26.5Gr H322 topped with a nosler balistic tip 70gr varmint boattail..

seems to work very well for this rifle.. Best group so far was 1/8 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards..

[cyanchycki]

Well young fell'r, (you go by the name Baby Lon)  , the place to get Lapua 220 Russian brass is Peter Dobson of Hirsch Precision.

http://www.hirschprecision.com/index.html

Calvin

[BABYLON5]

I was looking for preformed brass, SAKO or NORMA.. Not interested at the current time in fire forming mine from 220 rusian.. So if you know of a source for those let me know..

And the name is babylon 5 like in the TV series.. being that i am now over 50 I don't get called young to often any more :-)

[Mike Darlow]

Fire forming is pretty easy. All you need is to get an 6mm expander, resize your brass with your normal die after. Then shoot your normal load through it making sure your brass is lubed so it resizes properly. Thats what I do anyways. Calvin mentioned the 220 Russian because its readily available in Canada and lapua brass is the best on the market. If you have a no turn neck then don't bother neck turning. You can even fireform while shooting Gophers or something, so your not burning your barrel uselessly.

I only know one guy that uses sako brass. He got it years ago and it came with the used rifle he bought. I wouldn't even know where to get some.

MIke

[BABYLON5]

>>>Fire forming is pretty easy. All you need is to get an 6mm expander, resize your brass with your normal die after. Then shoot your normal load through it making sure your brass is lubed so it resizes properly.

So what is it you are doing here?
1)Resise neck to 6mm That I understand.
2)Resize with normal die next I thought you fireformed after #1?
I have a full length resize die for 6ppc, won't that dioe #1 and #2?

Do you actually lube the cases before you chamber and fire them???

i was referring to this article where the just expand the neck and then fire the case...

http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html


Method 2--Fire-Form with 6mm bullet and Full Load: The second method is to fire-form with a 6mm bullet in place using your regular rifle powder. To save wear on your precious match barrel, again, this can be done with a dedicated fire-forming barrel. It's fine to use a "throw-away" PPC barrel that has lost its accuracy, but you want to make sure the chamber is the same as your match gun, or your fire-formed rounds may not fit. You expand the brass with a 6mm expander, then turn the cases to fit your chamber. (You may wish to leave the very end of the neck a couple thousandths larger than the rest of the neck so you get a crush fit--you can then make a final neck-turning pass after fire-forming). Load a full charge, seat the bullets into the lands, and shoot. After initial fire-forming you'll want to shoot the cases one or two times in your match barrel to get a final perfect fit. Most shooters will then uniform the primer pockets, and some will ream the flash holes. Some shooters like to do a final neck-turning pass after fire-forming. Once you do the case prep you prefer, the cases are ready for competition.

[Mike Darlow]

The 220 russian is a 22 caliber so I expand the neck first to 6mm. I don't use an expander ball in my full length die.
After expanding, I trim the necks for my 263 chamber. Then, I resize it with my normal full length die to get the proper neck tension so my bullet holds correctly, but I leave plenty of headspace.
I lube the case with resizing lube and make sure my case fits tightly ( when closing the bolt) in the chamber ( from shoulder to base) because I want the brass to expand laterally and not in length. The purpose for this is so you don't create a weak spot in the brass and a possibility for future case separation. I fire form all my brass and then measure the overall length of all the fired brass. It should not vary more than 3 thousands. I don't know what the max variation for other guys but thats what I use. For example, if a case has grown way more than all the others then you know it did not fire form properly and throw it away. So now, all my brass is fire formed and will now trim them to the exact length I want.
I have talked to other guys and they have found that when a case is not properly fire formed, it will continue to grow in length throughout many firing.

I have read the method in accurate shooter and trimming the necks twice for a crush fit is too much of a hassle for me. Also, the point of using a fire forming barrels is a good one. I would recommend though, that you own your own reamer. This means that your old barrels chamber is identical to your new barrels chamber.

Hope this helps. Fire forming seems complicated but once you get the hang of it its no problem.