Author Topic: Graham Flags your next purchase  (Read 11372 times)

Offline cyanchycki

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Graham Flags your next purchase
« on: February 03, 2010, 07:59:19 AM »
Okay shooters, if you were to buy Graham flags would you go with the original or would you buy the new flat top flags?

My home made Graham immitations work very well but I was thinking I should get a set of real flags.  I figured I should standardize my flag collection in case a bench sharing scenario is the order of the day.

Calvin   

My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 08:00:57 AM »
That is dumb I answered my own question with "Bench sharing scenario"

 :-[ :-[ :-[
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline John VM

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 07:37:19 PM »
 Calvin, while flags are important they do not need to be fancy. You should see the flags Ed Watson set many a record with. I myself watch the ribbons 90 percent over the flags. The flags are good at showing a pattern in the field if all the flags have similar color patterns but the ribbons will show the switches and intensity way more accurately.

Bill Gammon

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 08:35:11 PM »
OH!! are you still shooting John or doing the other thingy  ;D ;D ;D

Offline John VM

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 07:38:18 AM »
Bill, how are you doin! Been doing the other thingy until I can afford my other hobby.
 Calvin, you should talk to Bill about flags, I don't think he even owns one.  :) ;)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 08:36:40 PM by John VM »

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 09:15:20 AM »
Okay Bill, what are your thoughts from a World Recorder holder stand point?  You can send me a private e-mail if you do not want to share your secrets. ;) ;)

Heck you probably do not want to share with me. 

I think I remember you saying one time that missing the change in wind velocity will kill your group faster than that subtle direction change.........

Calvin
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 05:43:29 PM »
I think the regular ones are great. Unless you have a special reticle put in  your scope the flat tops are not required. Most of todays high magnification scopes don't have enough field of view to see flags in them and really gives you tunnel vision. The flat top can be set up a couple of inches higher, but not sure that 2 inches makes a lot of difference. I know it don't at Rosebud anyway.

Offline Rick Graham

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 06:33:14 PM »
Well, maybe I can contribute something here… Tony is right that the regular design has worked well for a long time and is still going strong.  Both designs are easy to read the angles, due to the shape of the vane and the bi colored ball for direction. Both have the same sq inches of the Hi-vis material. The main advantage to the flat tops is to be able to stack more flags in your scope. Guys using the raised reticle scopes like them for this reason. The ball is at the top of the flag so even if you overlap them half way you can still see the ball at the top of the flag. Guys with regular reticles can usually get one or maybe two more flags than usual in their scope at 200 yds depending on the situation. If you have your new March turned up on 80X forget it!)  ;D  You gain about 1.5” per flag. So what that means is if you put your furthest flag right under the target, each successive flag you gain 1.5” over where you could set the regular design flags. So if you use say 6 flags at 200, you gain 9” in height for you flag closest to you. I other words the flags can be up closer to where the bullet is. If you overlap them it would be more. On very low ranges, you can get away with less offsetting of the flags (for visibility) because of this. Another thing, the FTs stack nice around berms or other trouble spots. (You can come up closer to the front and back side of the berm due to their shorter height.)

There are some disadvantages to the FTs. They are a little more awkward to handle due to everything being down from the pivot. Storage is a little trickier… with the regular flags guys often just put a 2x2 block in the bottom of their storage box with .75” holes drilled to set their pivots in. It works well. The FTs you can’t easily do that because the vane is down from the pivot. You can use finger adjustable pivots and turn the vane over when you store them (a little more hassle) or you need to put the block up high in your box from side to side so that the vanes will hang down when the pivots are in the holes of the block. With the XL FTs, the pivot is closer to the vane, and can create clearance problems if you have large knobs sticking out on your stands in some situations. (the FT vane travels around the stand)  Another thing with the FTs is you lose a little tail length. (with the vane being down instead of up) In situations where you need a very short flag set up this can leave you with not much tail. I try to help with this by putting two anchor points on the FTs. One at the bottom, and one close to the top. That way if you have a short flag situation you can use the top tail anchor point. (I prefer the bottom anchor point in all other situations)

You might also consider your shooting style also. If you like to stay on that scope a lot like a lot of guys do these days, maybe the FTs might help with that. I am a heads up shooter, so either works just fine for me. I am more likely to be concerned with having enough of the XLs out there so my tired old eyes can see them!

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 07:27:00 PM »
Hi Rick,
Your new vertical indicating flags look pretty cool. Should be handy at Tacoma eh?

Offline Rick Graham

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2010, 10:05:32 AM »
Well, you know how Tacoma can be, so we can only hope they do help! I was just looking at my targets for a Tacoma 200 yd unlimited agg yesterday. It was still a pretty good agg, but 3 out of the five (10) shot groups had 1 shot hanging either up or down out of the group. Three nine and ones out of 5 groups! That place can give you fits at times!

Hope you guys can make it down this season. 

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2010, 11:51:19 AM »
Sure gonna try. My only firm trip so far is the Nationals. I'd like to shoot the July match with my rail if I can work it out. Our daughter is in Vancouver so I could drop Sharon there and head to Tacoma the next day. Would work out pretty good. Will depend on finding a new load for the Rail as I am using Brunos and S322 powder and only have enough left for the Nationals. Of course it is too cold up here to do anything right now. Be glad when winter is over!

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2010, 04:21:41 PM »
Thanks Rick for the info it is much appreciated.

Tony I think  a few of you guys at Rosebud need a uppy/downy flag at your 100 yard berm when shooting 200.

I can hear Paul now.... WTF is that......... ??? ???

Later
Calvin
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2010, 05:06:38 PM »
Last year I had the tail on my close flag go straight up in the air just as I touched one off. Almost an inch low at 200. I actually think Tacoma is worse for vertical. I think it is because they have a birm at 50 and it continues flat to the 100 etc. In other words each birm is level to the next yardage. I never see a tail go up in the air, but you get vertical and it can be up or down from point of impact. If you fire the next one holding for it you may as well pack up and go home.

Offline Tony Gauthier

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2010, 06:28:10 PM »
Thanks Rick for the info it is much appreciated.

Tony I think  a few of you guys at Rosebud need a uppy/downy flag at your 100 yard berm when shooting 200.

I can hear Paul now.... WTF is that......... ??? ???

Later
Calvin
I don't want to confuse Paul anymore than he is already! I will save that for you! It would be interesting to see what they would do though.

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Graham Flags your next purchase
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2010, 07:20:13 PM »
Well fellas since I am going to the NBRSA Nationals in Kansas I just ordered a set of 6 High Vis Standard flags.  4 regular size and 2 larger for out beyond.  My Graham clones work fine but I will have the real ones for the real shoots.

Not sure who I may be sharing a bench with but having Graham flags will make it that much easier.  You guys in the west have them allready.  Tony, Jeff, Rob, Dan, now me.  We have our own rotation...........

Oh that is if we all still go......

Later,
Calvin
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

 

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